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DATE 2010-01-01

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Key: archive Value: 2010-01-01

Key: id Value: 539559

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-01-01
FROM Ron Guerin
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Fri Jan 1 15:56:33 2010
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Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:54:35 -0500
From: Ron Guerin
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To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
References: <20100101190935.GD559-at-panix.com>
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Ruben Safir wrote:
> I think this issue is complex. Monty is no doubt not a die in the wool
> Free Software advocate. We had him as an NYLXS award winner years ago
> and the amount of effort that he put into free software support for
> MYSQL was herculinian (sp?) so I do believe that he has deep Free
> Software scrupples, but he definitely percieves of his economic interest
> in an ability to dual license, and more importantly, he seems to have
> business contacts that strongly believe in the need to obtain closed
> sources licensing. Its just kind of funny for me to read that Larry
> paid Monty to put MYSQL under the GPL because I think Monty is a far
> greater Free Software advocate than Larry.
>

Larry Augustin now runs badgeware vendor SugarCRM, which speaks for the
depth of his commitment to Free Software. Both of them support Free
Software to the extent that it fits in with their current business
plan. To that extent you can lump them both in with .... every other
business[man] who has supported Free Software at one point or another.
Now I've never met Monty, so I'm really just giving you a "geek on the
street" viewpoint here, but if I was Monty, the mistake I made was not
retiring after selling to Sun. From where I stand, and having written
code I've put a lot of myself into, I can easily imagine that Monty's
had second thoughts about the whole thing. But it's too late now, and
while he might have been able to buy MySQL back from the dying star
known as Sun, there's no chance he's going to get it back from Oracle.
He seems to be trying to manipulate the EU into forcing Oracle to give
him what Oracle will (apparently) not willingly sell him, which is a
license to distribute MySQL under some other license than the GPL,
because he probably can't build a business around his fork without it.
The moral of the story here is when you sell your company, you're done
with it. No, *really*. Make your choice about what's most important to
you carefully, because once you sell, it's not yours anymore.

> I think there are a couple of things driving this and one aspect of this
> which needs to be understood. First, when Monty sold the TM and
> original copyrights to MYSQL to Sun, I think part of his calculation was
> that ***HE IS MYSQL***, so nothing he was doing was going to really
> affect his long turm relationship with his work...as long as his
> relationship with Sun Microsystems remained cordial. He doesn't have
> that relationship with Oracle. In fact, I'm sure he was spent a good
> part of his life skirmishing with Ellison's mega-giant..and there is a
> lot of bad blood. And now his business contacts are gathering around
> him trying to leverage as much as possible long term control of MYSQL.
>
> I don't think Monty is really thinking about this clearly. The GPL is
> the biggest thing that protects him. In they remove that protection
> Oracle is going to swallow up MYSQL like Apple has Darwin
>

The GPL apparently interferes with his business model. As you
mentioned, he believes he *is* MySQL. (and for all I know that could be
true) He doesn't care about Oracle's version of MySQL, because he
doesn't think it's going to be of any importance. He only cares about
his ability to dual-license his own fork because he expects to be *the*
version of MySQL that everyone uses.

I don't know what's going to happen with MySQL. Despite what Monty's
saying, I understand there's several credible forks now, most I think
are run by people who've jumped ship from MySQL/Sun and a big dark cloud
of suspicion over what's going to be Oracle's version. Monty's belief
he can become the MySQL of choice isn't implausible, but the
"enterprise" crowd undoubtedly loves the idea of overpaying Oracle for
MySQL, because that's just how they roll.

> Secondly, What was Monty thinking? Sun has been in economic turmoil for
> a decade. He's had been better off buying Sun then selling to them?
> Once he sold that trademark to them, he was playing Russian Rollette
> with his lifes work. So why did he sell? Because Sun made him a
> BILLIONAIRE. I was so happy for him.

Obviously because he wanted their money. And that's not necessarily a
bad thing, except in his case apparently it was, because he wasn't
prepared to walk away. The EU may make demands of Oracle that gives
Monty back what he sold to Sun for free. Or maybe it scuttles the
Oracle/Sun deal, which would mean Monty doesn't get what he thinks he
needs, which would leave him in the bind he's in now.

> Let him fork under the GPL. He's not losing any money and removing the
> GPL from MYSQL is a dangerous game, IMO.
>

He needs to find a new way to spend his time and money that hasn't got
anything to do with MySQL.

> Lastly, I'm not in agreement of his interpretation of the GPL, although
> I'm double checking with Richard. Who says you can't build proprietary
> apps on top of Free Software without extra legal clauses?
>
>

Since you've asked RMS, I'll defer to him about what the GPL license allows.

- Ron

  1. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL; Sign the petition]
  2. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  3. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  4. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  5. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  6. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  7. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  8. 2010-01-01 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  9. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  10. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  11. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  12. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  13. 2010-01-02 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  14. 2010-01-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  15. 2010-01-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  16. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL
  17. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  18. 2010-01-03 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT]
  19. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  20. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  21. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  22. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  23. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  24. 2010-01-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  25. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  26. 2010-01-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  27. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  28. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Fwd: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  29. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ACTA
  30. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Malware in Gnome Project..
  31. 2010-01-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  32. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important video
  34. 2010-01-10 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2010-01-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2010-01-10 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  39. 2010-01-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  40. 2010-01-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  41. 2010-01-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  42. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  43. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [elephants77-at-verizon.net: Signing up for
  44. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  45. 2010-01-13 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  46. 2010-01-14 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Foundation starts job board
  47. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  48. 2010-01-14 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] C++ Engineer, New York City | 80-100k
  49. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Events Schedule - this coming Month
  50. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Schedule Project
  51. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SuSE Studio Workshop
  52. 2010-01-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
  53. 2010-01-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HURD Installation
  54. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  55. 2010-01-19 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  56. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  57. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good Year for GNU Business
  58. 2010-01-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  59. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Young Programmers and their hero worship
  60. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Human Interface Design
  61. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Kindle the Copyright Warsi
  62. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RIAA losing another one on the copyright laws
  63. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS can't secure OS even after new security update on IE...
  64. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Twitter turns off MS dependent features and flash features because
  65. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shakespear is a bi-guy according to wikipedia
  66. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Speaking of Sheakespear..
  67. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Killer Asteroids...
  68. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  69. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite - ON FOR TOMORROW
  70. 2010-01-23 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  71. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  72. 2010-01-24 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  73. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  74. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  75. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  76. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  77. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  78. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  79. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Now would be a good time
  80. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next technite
  81. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  82. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jelly in Brooklyn at Change You Want to See! Friday 1/29
  83. 2010-01-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  84. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  85. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next Meeting Date?
  86. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook really really does suck]
  87. 2010-01-26 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  88. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  89. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars Continue
  90. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Fwd: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: bind (SUSE-SA:2009:059)
  91. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Tonight
  92. 2010-01-27 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  93. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  94. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SourceForge now blocks Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sundan, Cuba
  95. 2010-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] This just has to be seen to understood
  96. 2010-01-28 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  97. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
  98. 2010-01-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table tonight at 10 PM
  99. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  100. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
  101. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  102. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  103. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  104. 2010-01-31 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  105. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  106. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  107. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  108. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled

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