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DATE 2010-01-01

HANGOUT

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Key: id Value: 539602

Key: archive Value: 2010-01-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-01-15
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Fri Jan 15 02:19:29 2010
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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:19:33 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
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I HATE THIS DOUBLE TALK..

Tensions between Google and China complicate U.S. diplomacy

By Ellen Nakashima and Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 15, 2010; A14

Google's threat to pull out of China after revelations by the
search-engine giant that hackers in China stole valuable corporate
secrets from its computer systems comes as the United States is making a
concerted push for closer ties with the Asian giant.

A pullout could complicate a delicate diplomatic dance: The Obama
administration would like China to make progress on human rights but
also needs it to help press Iran and North Korea on nuclear issues and
to restructure its economy so its people buy more and export less.

Still, some analysts said, Google's bombshell announcement Tuesday --
which included the news that it would stop filtering Internet searches
on its site in China -- could also give the administration an opening to
raise sensitive issues, such as human rights and cyber-espionage,
without seeming like the aggressor. The broad, sophisticated nature of
the attack on Google and at least 33 other firms, including Juniper
Networks, Adobe, Yahoo, Symantec, Dow and Northrop Grumman, may move the
issue of cyberattacks up on the diplomatic agenda, experts said.

On Thursday, the tech firm McAfee announced that it had isolated the
malicious software used to target Google and other companies, exploiting
an unknown vulnerability in Microsoft Internet Explorer that allowed the
attackers to secretly commandeer the victims' systems.

"The current bumper crop of malware is very sophisticated, highly
targeted and designed to infect, conceal access, siphon data or, even
worse, modify data without detection," McAfee analyst George Kurtz wrote
in a blog post about the attacks. Those programs, he wrote, were
"primarily seen by governments, and the mere mention of them strikes
fear in any cyberwarrior."

The United States has until now addressed cyberattacks "separately from
diplomatic relations" with China and other countries, "but increasingly,
this is more and more difficult to do," said Susan Shirk, a China expert
at the University of California at San Diego. "So it's definitely
complicating foreign policy relations in that sense."

Rob Knake, a cybersecurity expert with the Council on Foreign Relations,
said that a "reluctance" to raise the issue of Internet censorship with
China "is no longer a tenable position."

But Alec Ross, senior adviser for innovation to Secretary of State
Hillary Rodham Clinton, told reporters that the administration has
"frequently made clear to the Chinese our views on the importance of
unrestricted Internet use, as well as cybersecurity." He added, "We look
to the Chinese for an explanation."

On Thursday, Foreign Ministry spokesman Jiang Yu said that Chinese law
"proscribes any form of hacking activity" and that "China's Internet is
open and the Chinese government encourages development of the Internet."
But in a statement posted on the Web site of the State Council
Information Office, cabinet spokesman Wang Chen said the government
should continue its policy of keeping certain types of information off
the Web in China.

"Maintaining the safe operation of the Internet and the secure flow of
information is a fundamental requirement for guaranteeing state security
and people's fundamental interests, promoting economic development and
cultural prosperity and maintaining a harmonious and stable society,"
Wang said.

David Gross, a former ambassador and U.S. coordinator for international
communications and information policy at the State Department, said U.S.
officials have been raising the issue of Google's ability to operate
without censorship since the company made the decision to set up
Google.cn in 2005, but always during private meetings with their Chinese
counterparts.

Still, Gross said, he does not think the pullout threat will catapult
this issue or human rights to the top of the U.S. agenda with China: "My
experience is that's not what drives those intergovernmental
discussions."

China has been tightening control over the media and increasing pressure
on dissidents. Google's decision to stop censoring Internet search
results, which the White House on Thursday said it supported, could
undermine that effort, analysts said.

Google did not coordinate its decision with the administration, nor did
the administration advise it beforehand, officials said.

A few hours before the company posted its announcement on its Web site,
a Google official called a handful of administration officials to alert
them.

They were surprised, officials said, but not displeased.

Staff writer Steven Mufson in Beijing and staff writer Cecilia Kang and
staff researcher Julie Tate in Washington contributed to this report.

  1. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL; Sign the petition]
  2. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  3. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  4. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  5. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  6. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  7. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  8. 2010-01-01 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
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  10. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  11. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  12. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  13. 2010-01-02 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  14. 2010-01-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  15. 2010-01-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  16. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL
  17. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  18. 2010-01-03 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT]
  19. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  20. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  21. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  22. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  23. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  24. 2010-01-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  25. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  26. 2010-01-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  27. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  28. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Fwd: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  29. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ACTA
  30. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Malware in Gnome Project..
  31. 2010-01-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  32. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important video
  34. 2010-01-10 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2010-01-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2010-01-10 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  39. 2010-01-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  40. 2010-01-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  41. 2010-01-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  42. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  43. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [elephants77-at-verizon.net: Signing up for
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  45. 2010-01-13 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
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  47. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
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  56. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
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  84. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
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  88. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  89. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars Continue
  90. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Fwd: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: bind (SUSE-SA:2009:059)
  91. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Tonight
  92. 2010-01-27 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  93. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  94. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SourceForge now blocks Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sundan, Cuba
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  97. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
  98. 2010-01-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table tonight at 10 PM
  99. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  100. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
  101. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  102. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  103. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  104. 2010-01-31 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  105. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  106. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  107. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  108. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled

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