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DATE 2010-01-01

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Key: archive Value: 2010-01-01

Key: id Value: 539623

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-01-24
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Sun Jan 24 13:08:10 2010
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:08:05 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
Message-ID: <20100124180805.GA5717-at-panix.com>
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On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 10:52:09AM -0500, Paul Charles Leddy wrote:
> Ya, sorry, moved to DC last week. : (
>


What? Do you know what the unemployment rate is in DC!

> Btw, The Left Forum is in March: leftforum.org.
>
> Anyone want to help do a panel on Irving Kristol? Let me know. He is The Man.
>

Left wing politics or right wing?

The funny thing is, that I believe the Left/Right dicotomy is a side
show to the real politics of the nation.

Its all cake, sugary, unhealthy, and corperate spounsored, with
different frosting.

Most people know what the right thing to do is...wrong and right isn't
left and right...they just won't do it.

Ruben

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 08:54:06PM -0500, Paul Charles Leddy wrote:
> >> Watch "Arguing the World", the movie.
> >>
> >> Good lead, thanks.
> >>
> >> Who was dumb enough to announce the death of neoconservatism? It rules
> >> the world. Duh.
> >>
> >
> > I'll see you at Technight tomoorrow
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> >> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gee - I've been right here all along..
> >> >
> >> > http://www.newsweek.com/id/232053
> >> >
> >> > The Return of the Neocons
> >> > Neoconservatism was once deemed dead?'Buried in the sands of Iraq.'
> >> > But it persists, not just as the de facto foreign-policy plank of the
> >> > Republican Party but, its proponents assert, in Obama's unapologetic
> >> > embrace of American military might.
> >> >
> >> > By David Margolick | NEWSWEEK
> >> >
> >> > Published Jan 22, 2010
> >> >
> >> > From the magazine issue dated Feb 1, 2010
> >> >
> >> > For all his eminence?or maybe because of it?the funeral for
> >> > Irving Kristol this past September was an understated affair. Some
> >> > thought Dick Cheney might show up, but neither he nor any other
> >> > Republican leader did; it seemed almost ungrateful, given Kristol's
> >> > extraordinary contribution to the GOP?how he'd brought intellectual
> >> > legitimacy and heft to what he himself had once called "the stupid
> >> > party." None of the Republican congressional leadership was there, nor
> >> > any of the would-be candidates for 2012?not even Sarah Palin, whom
> >> > Kristol's ubiquitous son, Bill, had helped turn into a political
> >> > phenomenon.
> >> >
> >> > The assemblage of about 200 people wasn't exactly small, but in the
> >> > gargantuan sanctuary of Adas Israel Congregation, built at a
> >> > time?1951?when American Jews of Irving Kristol's generation
> >> > wanted to proclaim they'd finally arrived and planned to stick around
> >> > awhile, it was dwarfed by its surroundings; the burgundy back benches
> >> > were empty. Adas Israel is Washington's most powerful Conservative
> >> > congregation, the one to which every Israeli ambassador to the United
> >> > States in history has belonged. Instead of the usual parade of celebrity
> >> > eulogists, though, only two people?the rabbi and Bill
> >> > Kristol?spoke, and briefly at that. In 40 minutes or so it was over.
> >> >
> >> > But the strength of neoconservatism, the intellectual and political
> >> > "persuasion" (as he once called it) that Irving Kristol launched and
> >> > led, has never been in its numbers but in its firepower and ferocity.
> >> > And had the elder Kristol?whose shrouded coffin sat inconspicuously
> >> > below the stage, nestled between the American and Israeli flags?been
> >> > able to survey the crowd, he'd have been pleased. For filling the pews
> >> > were his progeny, not just biological but intellectual, and they were an
> >> > impressive lot.
> >> >
> >> > They came from the publications that neoconservatives either run, like
> >> > Bill Kristol's Weekly Standard, or work for, like The Washington Post
> >> > and The Wall Street Journal. Others came from the think tanks where
> >> > neocons congregate, particularly the American Enterprise Institute
> >> > (AEI). There were faces from the Iraq War, with which the neocons are
> >> > inextricably linked, like former deputy secretary of defense Paul
> >> > Wolfowitz (making a rare public appearance) and the former civilian
> >> > administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer. Charles Krauthammer, the impassioned
> >> > and highly influential neoconservative columnist at The Washington Post,
> >> > and the political scientist Francis Fukuyama (a rare lapsed and
> >> > repentant neocon) hadn't spoken to each other for several years?ever
> >> > since Fukuyama had taken exception to the roseate view of the Iraq War
> >> > Krauthammer had offered in the American Enterprise Institute's 2004
> >> > Irving Kristol Lecture?but Kristol's death had briefly brought them
> >> > back together, albeit in different parts of the synagogue. The more
> >> > traditional wing of the Republican Party, the one the neocons had
> >> > arguably routed, also paid homage: George Will, who'd come to view the
> >> > Iraq War as an enormous mistake, took his seat respectfully. In his
> >> > uncharacteristically apolitical, even gentle, eulogy, Bill Kristol
> >> > couldn't help but gloat over the proliferation of neocons: "scores,
> >> > legions?hordes they must seem to those who disapprove of them," he
> >> > said.
> >> >
> >> > Like Bill Kristol, some of those on hand had inherited their right-wing
> >> > beliefs rather than adopted them (as Irving Kristol, a longtime
> >> > Democrat, once had). Technically, there is nothing "neo" about
> >> > conservatives like Robert Kagan, the historian and another Washington
> >> > Post columnist, or John Podhoretz, the editor of Commentary; each is a
> >> > son of one of neoconservatism's founding fathers. Indeed, no strain in
> >> > American politics is so dynastic. It is akin to the right-wing Likud
> >> > Party in Israel, whose religion and politics, world view, and succession
> >> > rituals the neocons often share. The definitions, and analogy, are
> >> > inexact, but both groups have recent ties to Europe and are haunted by
> >> > the Holocaust, which has left them feeling wounded, suspicious, and
> >> > sometimes bellicose, determined never again to be naive or to trust the
> >> > world's good intentions. Both spent decades in the po-litical wilderness
> >> > before miraculously acquiring power; both begat "princes" who defied the
> >> > normal generational tensions and allied themselves with their kingly
> >> > fathers. When Bill Kristol rose to praise Irving that morning, he was
> >> > really picking up his scepter.
> >> >
> >> > Had you Googled "neoconservative" and "death" that day, four days after
> >> > the 89-year-old Kristol expired, you'd have found lots on their
> >> > long-rumored?and for some, much-anticipated and -savored?demise.
> >> > On both the left and right, neoconservatism was deemed a spent force.
> >> > Its ideas, Foreign Policy magazine had pronounced, "lie buried in the
> >> > sands of Iraq."
> >> >
> >> > But obituaries can be premature. At the moment, in fact, the neocons
> >> > seem resurrected. One of their own, Frederick Kagan of AEI (Robert's
> >> > younger brother), helped turn around the war in Iraq by devising and
> >> > pushing for the surge there. More recent-ly, President Obama?whose
> >> > foreign--policy pronouncements (nuanced, multi-lateral, interdependent)
> >> > and style (low-key, self-critical, conciliatory, collegial) were a
> >> > repudiation of neoconservative assertiveness?has swung their way, or
> >> > so they believe. First, he's sending an additional 30,000 troops to
> >> > Afghanistan, nearly as many as leading neocons had sought. Then came his
> >> > Nobel Prize acceptance speech, which, with its acknowledgment of the
> >> > need for force, its nod to dissidents in Iran and elsewhere, and its
> >> > talk about good and evil, was surprisingly congenial.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You can read the rest of it on line
> >> >
> >> > Ruben
> >> >
> >

  1. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL; Sign the petition]
  2. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
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  5. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  6. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  7. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  8. 2010-01-01 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  9. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  10. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  11. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  12. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  13. 2010-01-02 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  14. 2010-01-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  15. 2010-01-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  16. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL
  17. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  18. 2010-01-03 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT]
  19. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  20. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  21. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  22. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  23. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  24. 2010-01-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  25. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  26. 2010-01-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  27. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  28. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Fwd: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  29. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ACTA
  30. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Malware in Gnome Project..
  31. 2010-01-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  32. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important video
  34. 2010-01-10 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2010-01-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2010-01-10 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  39. 2010-01-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  40. 2010-01-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  41. 2010-01-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  42. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  43. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [elephants77-at-verizon.net: Signing up for
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  45. 2010-01-13 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  46. 2010-01-14 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Foundation starts job board
  47. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
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  49. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Events Schedule - this coming Month
  50. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Schedule Project
  51. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SuSE Studio Workshop
  52. 2010-01-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
  53. 2010-01-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HURD Installation
  54. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  55. 2010-01-19 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  56. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  57. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good Year for GNU Business
  58. 2010-01-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
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  64. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Twitter turns off MS dependent features and flash features because
  65. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shakespear is a bi-guy according to wikipedia
  66. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Speaking of Sheakespear..
  67. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Killer Asteroids...
  68. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  69. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite - ON FOR TOMORROW
  70. 2010-01-23 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  71. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  72. 2010-01-24 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  73. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  74. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  75. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  76. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  77. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  78. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  79. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Now would be a good time
  80. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next technite
  81. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  82. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jelly in Brooklyn at Change You Want to See! Friday 1/29
  83. 2010-01-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  84. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  85. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next Meeting Date?
  86. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook really really does suck]
  87. 2010-01-26 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  88. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  89. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars Continue
  90. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Fwd: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: bind (SUSE-SA:2009:059)
  91. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Tonight
  92. 2010-01-27 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  93. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  94. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SourceForge now blocks Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sundan, Cuba
  95. 2010-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] This just has to be seen to understood
  96. 2010-01-28 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  97. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
  98. 2010-01-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table tonight at 10 PM
  99. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  100. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
  101. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  102. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  103. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  104. 2010-01-31 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  105. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  106. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  107. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  108. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled

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