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DATE 2010-01-01

HANGOUT

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Key: id Value: 539650

Key: archive Value: 2010-01-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-01-31
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Sun Jan 31 16:44:01 2010
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:45:22 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
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----- Forwarded message from Ruben Safir -----

X-Original-To: mrbrklyn-at-panix.com
Delivered-To: mrbrklyn-at-panix.com
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:42:43 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: NYLUG Technical Discussion
Cc: mrbrklyn-at-panix.com
Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
In-Reply-To: <201001311358.18558.Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 01:58:18PM -0500, Chris Knadle wrote:
> On Saturday 30 January 2010 20:25:41, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > I'm considering working the C++ program in the following manner. I want
> > this to be a serious endeavor with commitment to learning. I hope to
> > initiate the first phase over 3 months. A full blown exploration of the
> > standard C++ language to include syntax, namespace, the standard
> > libraries, compilation, datatypes, memory management, Class structure
> > and Object design, scope, and a run down of the standard libraries
> ...
> > Its a lot of work and it takes a serous commitment. I tried to do this
> > once before and it failed on its face. So I'm hoping we can start this
> > up again with more success.
> ...

You might very well be right Chris, and I want to start from scratch. I
want to take as much time as we need to learn things ***WELL***.
Learning things well, IMO, and in my teaching philosophy, is more
important than covering ground, especially since a lot of things are
just an issue of memorization and practice. I don't always see the
benefit of covering minute details of method or class definitions or
syntax that are adequately documented in text and manuals. I try to
focus on producing good programmers. And sometimes I'll look at something and
just say, "Yeah this is nuts, why was this built like this, it just
confuses the programmer and the creates spagehti code". I'll mention
them but pass over them because I judge that it should best be avoided.


For an example, an object might have 20 methods that it can invoke. But
in real practice, only 5 are essential for 95% of rational coding.
Better to focus on well use of the 5 methods that are useful than
killing people with extensive discussion of the full twenty. This is
not to say one should ignore everything else. But it is saying that if
you need to function as a programmer it is easy to get stuck in the
tarpit of details and lose your bug picture of what your doing.


Students of programming are scupted, not created. And we learn
programming much like we learn natural language. We don't run around
speaking Shakespearean English or speak like an encyclodedia. We learn
the rules of language, how it is cognitively understood, through the
learning of significant idioms. And then we build on that. So I try to
focus on understanding how the language works with your computer, so
that we really understand what we are saying, and focus on the useful
idioms that produce real fluency. I've had a lot of success with this
method of teaching programming. My students have gone on to become some
of the best in the nation.


BTW - if anyone needs access to a development enviorment, I can give
them accounts on the NYLXS server.

Ruben

> > So who is still game? This kind of study could cost someone 10 grand at
> > NYU and you might never learn as much.
>
> I like the idea and I'm glad to have people around with similar interests, as
> it helps motivation. However I'd like to caution you that the pace you'd like
> to keep this at might be too fast. I taught the beginning two C++ courses
> for SUNY Farmingdale back in 2001, so I have an idea of how much work this
> would entail. Your current outline for the first three months would cover an
> entire year of C++ courses at a university.
>
> That said, I'm still up for this.
>
> -- Chris
>
> --
>
> Chris Knadle
> Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> Hire expert Linux talent by posting jobs here :: http://jobs.nylug.org
> The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk-at-nylug.org
> The list archive is at http://nylug.org/pipermail/nylug-talk
> To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

? Copyright for the Digital Millennium

----- End forwarded message -----

  1. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL; Sign the petition]
  2. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  3. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  4. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  5. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  6. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  7. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  8. 2010-01-01 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  9. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  10. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  11. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  12. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  13. 2010-01-02 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  14. 2010-01-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  15. 2010-01-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  16. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL
  17. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  18. 2010-01-03 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT]
  19. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  20. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  21. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  22. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  23. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  24. 2010-01-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  25. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  26. 2010-01-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  27. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  28. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Fwd: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  29. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ACTA
  30. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Malware in Gnome Project..
  31. 2010-01-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  32. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important video
  34. 2010-01-10 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2010-01-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2010-01-10 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  39. 2010-01-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  40. 2010-01-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  41. 2010-01-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  42. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  43. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [elephants77-at-verizon.net: Signing up for
  44. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  45. 2010-01-13 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  46. 2010-01-14 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Foundation starts job board
  47. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  48. 2010-01-14 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] C++ Engineer, New York City | 80-100k
  49. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Events Schedule - this coming Month
  50. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Schedule Project
  51. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SuSE Studio Workshop
  52. 2010-01-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
  53. 2010-01-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HURD Installation
  54. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  55. 2010-01-19 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  56. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  57. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good Year for GNU Business
  58. 2010-01-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  59. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Young Programmers and their hero worship
  60. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Human Interface Design
  61. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Kindle the Copyright Warsi
  62. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RIAA losing another one on the copyright laws
  63. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS can't secure OS even after new security update on IE...
  64. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Twitter turns off MS dependent features and flash features because
  65. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shakespear is a bi-guy according to wikipedia
  66. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Speaking of Sheakespear..
  67. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Killer Asteroids...
  68. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  69. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite - ON FOR TOMORROW
  70. 2010-01-23 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  71. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  72. 2010-01-24 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  73. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  74. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  75. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  76. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  77. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  78. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  79. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Now would be a good time
  80. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next technite
  81. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  82. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jelly in Brooklyn at Change You Want to See! Friday 1/29
  83. 2010-01-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  84. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  85. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next Meeting Date?
  86. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook really really does suck]
  87. 2010-01-26 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  88. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  89. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars Continue
  90. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Fwd: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: bind (SUSE-SA:2009:059)
  91. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Tonight
  92. 2010-01-27 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  93. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  94. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SourceForge now blocks Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sundan, Cuba
  95. 2010-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] This just has to be seen to understood
  96. 2010-01-28 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  97. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
  98. 2010-01-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table tonight at 10 PM
  99. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  100. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
  101. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  102. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  103. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  104. 2010-01-31 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  105. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  106. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  107. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  108. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled

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