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Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mrbrklyn.com (8.12.11/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id iBCFBJvG028293 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:11:19 -0500 Received: (from mdom-at-localhost) by www2.mrbrklyn.com (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id iBCFBIVF028292 for hangouts-destenys; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:11:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: www2.mrbrklyn.com: mdom set sender to owner-hangouts-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com using -f Received: from mail.windowsrefund.net (24-168-3-85.nyc.rr.com [24.168.3.85]) by mrbrklyn.com (8.12.11/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id iBCFBI3u028287 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:11:18 -0500 Received: from nephilim.windowsrefund.net (nephilim.windowsrefund.net [192.168.1.100]) by mail.windowsrefund.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCB134086; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:11:27 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:10:58 -0500 From: Adam Kosmin To: Contrarian Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com Subject: Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting machines) Message-ID: <20041212151058.GD1177-at-nephilim> References: <200412120637.iBC6bf2V082297-at-bsd1.nyct.net> <20041212014300.K82657-at-bsd1.nyct.net> <20041212015028.X83264-at-bsd1.nyct.net> <20041212015845.L83660-at-bsd1.nyct.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041212015845.L83660-at-bsd1.nyct.net> X-GPG-Key: http://windowsrefund.net/akosmin-pubkey.asc X-GPG-Fingerprint: 11C2 79F6 BD3D 3A86 5640 3DA0 3860 B30E 711D 3B66 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040722i X-windowsrefund-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-windowsrefund-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com Sender: owner-hangouts-at-mrbrklyn.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Adam Kosmin List: New Yorker GNU Linux Scene Admin: To unsubscribe send unsubscribe name-at-domian.com in the body to hangout-request-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 (2004-09-13) on www2.mrbrklyn.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.0.0 X-Spam-Level: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38878 Status: RO Content-Length: 1918 Lines: 66 " " " " Adam, do you have an author name for the Counterpunch article? This is the link http://counterpunch.org/baker08192004.html " Anyway, regarding Free Software, you are entirely right, I " just don't think that is a strong enough measure. When the " voting error issue first began to be discussed on local lists " I thought it was it was an activist side-show without any " merit. I was wrong, as a little research (on c.r. and else " where) showed me. But the remedy isn't better software I " think it's no software. I disagree. That would be inefficiant. " " From Mike Bacarelly on the nylug-talk list: " " :Nothing that I've seen regarding either election has " :convinced me that the issues and controversy are due to " :technical failures. Quite the opposite --they've been " :administrative failures. " " :Where I voted in New York, they had mechanical voting " :machines that did basically everything a voting machine should. " :It clearly showed the options, only allowed me to make no vote " :or a valid vote (wouldn't let me vote for more than one " :candidate per position), and had very discrete start/done " :operations. " " :As far as I'm concerned, this is the ideal. Putting a " :computer inside these machines increases their chances " :of failure and the risk of tampering by a gajillion " :bajillion percent. " " -- " Don't like Google Beta? " Write 'em at http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/request.py " " " ____________________________ " NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene " Fair Use - " because it's either fair use or useless.... " NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc " -- Adam Kosmin, RHCE, LPIC http://windowsrefund.net "Don't take the name of root in vain" - /usr/src/linux/README ____________________________ NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc 2004-12-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Free' Software Isn't Free (Article) 2004-12-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suffering the Swings and Arrows of Outrageous Customer Service! 2004-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] In lui of a board meeting, some suggestions 2004-12-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Dual-booting multiple Linux distros 2004-12-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS: Non-profit Status 2004-12-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [googlealerts-noreply-at-google.com: Google Alert - Linux] 2004-12-28 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] On the heels of the FireFox removal thing. 2004-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fw: Re: [NMLUG] Microsoft still up to tricks 2004-12-28 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Fw: Re: [NMLUG] Microsoft still up to tricks 2004-12-28 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: Re: [NMLUG] Microsoft still up to tricks 2004-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] A Moment to Pause 2004-12-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Steinbeck's hometown to close libraries 2004-12-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sprucing up open source's GPL foundation 2004-12-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Technite 2004-12-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite 2004-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] jobs3 2004-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs2 2004-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs 2004-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software in Primary School Education 2004-12-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] supplies 2004-12-23 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> RE: [hangout] supplies 2004-12-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] supplies 2004-12-23 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Subject: [hangout] supplies 2004-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Lost works from the web 2004-12-23 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] unsubscribe 2004-12-23 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] unsubscribe 2004-12-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting today? 2004-12-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [meissner-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: various kernel problems (SUSE-SA:2004:044)] 2004-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Urgent! I need an answer for the meeting ASAP. 2004-12-21 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Urgent! I need an answer for the meeting ASAP. 2004-12-21 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting? 2004-12-20 mlr52 <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] NY area high school art/design/media teacher contacts for workshop 2004-12-19 Evan Inker <einker-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Sunday Tech Night 2004-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I would like to invite you to be aguest on my show. When you 2004-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] KDE 2004-12-19 Steve Lebetkin <SteveL-at-primagency.com> Subject: [hangout] KDE 2004-12-19 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Desktop FS System Software 2004-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop FS System Software 2004-12-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Upcoming hearings by the New York City Council's Committee on Technology in Government (as of 12.17.04).] 2004-12-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Way too Weird!!!! 2004-12-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Way too Weird!!!! 2004-12-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Lawsuit filed to prohibit copyright protection of software 2004-12-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Priorities for PR in Your New Year Plans (fwd) 2004-12-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Improving Job Market and the Linux Journal 2004-12-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Improving Job Market and the Linux Journal 2004-12-14 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: [Politics] retired 2004-12-14 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: How smart is your right foot? 2004-12-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs Board 2004-12-13 wjc <wjc-at-optonline.net> Subject: [hangout] rpmfind.net 2004-12-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] cross posting. 2004-12-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting machines) 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Great Article: Free as in Freedom - Part 1 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Voting (was:Re: why we need Free Software voting 2004-12-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] Re: why we need Free Software voting machines 2004-12-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] DSL or Broadband 2004-12-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Why we need Free Software voting machines 2004-12-11 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] DSL or Broadband 2004-12-10 Steve Lebetkin <SteveL-at-primagency.com> Subject: [hangout] paging Paul Robert Marino 2004-12-10 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Great Article: Free as in Freedom - Part 1 2004-12-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Getting back to you. 2004-12-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linux class questions 2004-12-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Researchers warn laptop users of infertility risk 2004-12-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting 2004-12-09 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Board meeting 2004-12-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Introducing you to a new Linux Journal sister publi 2004-12-09 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Introducing you to a new Linux Journal sister publi 2004-12-09 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] NYC gets no respect... 2004-12-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Introducing you to a new Linux Journal sister publication 2004-12-09 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] A Chanuka Gift from the City of New York 2004-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A Chanuka Gift from the City of New York 2004-12-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] A Chanuka Gift from the City of New York 2004-12-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] A Chanuka Gift from the City of New York 2004-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYC gets no respect... 2004-12-08 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> RE: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today] 2004-12-07 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Leads: Student Club 2004-12-07 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> RE: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Open House CONGRADS!!! 2004-12-06 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Paging David Sugar 2004-12-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Help with Open House set up 2004-12-06 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today 2004-12-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today 2004-12-05 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Novel Review 2004-12-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [hangout] What would the definition of enterprise 2004-12-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] What would the definition of enterprise level 2004-12-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Holography and Computers 2004-12-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Radio Show 2004-12-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] I have an announcement message, 2004-12-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Open House and Classes Drive 2004-12-02 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] New Website Advice 2004-12-02 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] leafleting report 2004-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting New Volunteers 2004-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Kill all the Spammers 2004-12-02 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] What would the definition of enterprise level computing be? 2004-12-02 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] need car 2004-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] mp3 editing 2004-12-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Tomorrow Morning 2004-12-01 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Tomorrow Morning 2004-12-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux gains in data warehousing 2004-12-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting Tomorrow Morning 2004-12-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] What would the definition of enterprise level computing be? 2004-12-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Upcoming Hearings by the Committee on Technology in Government of the New York City Council (as of Nov. 30, 2004) 2004-12-01 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [FCNYC] Computer ONLY for non-profit!!!] (fwd) NYLXS are Do'ers and the first step of Doing is Joining! Join NYLXS and make a difference in your community today!