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DATE 2017-06-01

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2017-06-07
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Foreign Policy Faliure that keeps on

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2013/11/27/is-the-uk-sleepwalking-towards-internet-censorship/#31c7ac691bac

Is The UK Sleepwalking Towards Internet Censorship?

Emma Woollacott ,

Contributor

I cover the control of content on the internet.

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

Just last week, Google GOOG -0.68% executive chairman Eric Schmidt
predicted that internet censorship would be a thing of the past within
ten years.

Speaking at Johns Hopkins University in Washington, he said: "First they
try to block you; second, they try to infiltrate you; and third, you
win. I really think that's how it works. Because the power is shifted."
He added: "I believe there's a real chance that we can eliminate
censorship and the possibility of censorship in a decade."
English: David Cameron's picture on the 10 Dow...

David Cameron: wants more websites blocked. Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Schmidt was basing his prediction on improvements in encryption. Google,
along with Facebook, Yahoo and, today, Microsoft have all announced
major improvements in security following the recent revelations from
former NSA contractor Edward Snowden about government spying.

"We have strengthened our systems remarkably as a result of the most
recent events," Schmidt said. "It’s reasonable to expect that the
industry as a whole will continue to strengthen these systems."

But to take this view is to consider only half the story. Because for
censorship to end, a population must want it to end: and while that's
certainly the case in many repressive regimes around the world, some
established democracies appear to be sleepwalking towards an internet
where your government controls what you see.

Here in the UK, a storm over child protection online has been whipped up
in recent months by populist politicians and the Daily Mail - yes,
that's right, the newspaper that likes to photograph a 14-year-old
'flaunting' her 'womanly curves', or an eight-year-old 'leggy beauty'.

The first move came earlier this summer, when prime minister David
Cameron announced plans to introduce voluntary internet filters that
would block pornographic content, with the aim of making it harder for
children to view.

And ten days ago, to great fanfare, he seized as a personal triumph
Google's plans to tighten online search results - and topped this by
announcing plans to go after child abusers on the dark web. The moves
have attracted some derision from knowlegeable observers: few child
abusers start their evening's entertainment via the Google search box,
and the £1.5 million the government's putting into penetrating the dark
web won't go terribly far.

Cameron knows all this perfectly well, of course. But the announcements
do achieve two things that are very important: first, appearing like a
man who cares about ordinary families - and, second, softening up the
population for a censored internet.

And the next stage has started already. Yesterday, an extremely telling
exchange between Cameron and Labour MP Paul Goggins was spotted in
Hansard, the official transcript of parliamentary debate, by an
eagle-eyed Reddit reader. Hidden away in the lengthy document covering
October 23 was Cameron's response to a question about 'Islamic extremism'.

"We have put in place some of the toughest controls that one can
possibly have within a democratic government, and the TPIMs [Terrorism
Prevention and Investigation Measures] are obviously one part of that,"
he said.

"We have had repeated meetings of the extremism task force — it met
again yesterday — setting out a whole series of steps that we will take
to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking online sites."

What's astonishing is how well these tactics appear to be working.
Making it harder to access child porn sites, naturally, has almost total
public support. And with much of the population confused about the
difference between site blocking, ISP filtering and tweaks to the Google
algorithm, Brits are softening to the idea of censorship in their millions.

There was virtually no complaint earlier this year when ISPs were
ordered to block two dozen file-sharing websites and search engines.
Nor, I suspect, will Cameron's comments about blocking 'extremist' sites
cause the concern that they should. But while piracy and child abuse -
with occasional notable exceptions - can usually be identified through
the judicial process, there's no word on how Cameron intends to do the
same with terrorist sites - and it's not hard to imagine 'mission creep'.

"I'm an Iranian and this is EXACTLY the way it started in Iran,"
comments one Reddit user. Another adds: "Russia reporting in. I confirm,
that's how it starts."

What's different in this case is that much of the UK is welcoming these
moves. The end of internet censorship worldwide? Good luck with that, Eric.
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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  1. 2017-06-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Neural Sciences and Coding
  2. 2017-06-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Neural Sciences and Coding
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  5. 2017-06-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Weeks
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  7. 2017-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Healthcare coding
  8. 2017-06-05 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #306 - Perl 5.26.0 is now available!
  9. 2017-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Project for PhP business app
  10. 2017-06-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] github thread with RMS
  11. 2017-06-05 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TPC::NA::2017: Propose lightning talks
  12. 2017-06-05 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TPC 2017 schedule has been posted; Registration;
  13. 2017-06-05 Glenn Randers-Pehrson <glennrp-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [png-mng-implement] Off-by-one bug in libpng16
  14. 2017-06-06 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  15. 2017-06-06 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [png-mng-implement] Off-by-one bug in
  16. 2017-06-06 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  17. 2017-06-06 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  18. 2017-06-06 ISOC-NY announcements <announce-at-lists.isoc-ny.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?=5Bisoc-ny=5D_Call_for_Proposals_?=
  19. 2017-06-06 Glenn Randers-Pehrson <glennrp-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [png-mng-implement] libpng-1.6.30beta04 is
  20. 2017-06-06 andy bang <andy.bang-at-oracle.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MySQL Enterprise Monitor 3.4.1 has been released
  21. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: tx path circular buffer
  22. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] reactjs
  23. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Midevil Castles, the Maginot Line, and now this
  24. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Foreign Policy Faliure that keeps on giving
  25. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Foreign Policy Faliure that keeps on
  26. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Inevitable Connection Between Artificial
  27. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Survailence Cameras on the cloud
  28. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] AI and surveillance
  29. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] ISIS may be using DJI consumer drones for
  30. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Snowden
  31. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] US envoy Haley berates UN rights council,
  32. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  33. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  34. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  35. 2017-06-07 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] London lowdown
  36. 2017-06-07 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] tx path circular buffer
  37. 2017-06-07 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  38. 2017-06-07 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  39. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  40. 2017-06-07 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  41. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  42. 2017-06-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Human rights and the UN
  43. 2017-06-08 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  44. 2017-06-08 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] CT Scans and 3d printing
  45. 2017-06-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  46. 2017-06-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] the surveillance state
  47. 2017-06-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] resume google trick
  48. 2017-06-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Coding Repos
  49. 2017-06-08 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] : Debian derivative that
  50. 2017-06-08 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] : Debian derivative that
  51. 2017-06-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] : Debian derivative that
  52. 2017-06-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  53. 2017-06-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] : Debian derivative that
  54. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in news
  55. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] : Debian derivative that
  56. 2017-06-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  57. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  58. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  59. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  60. 2017-06-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  61. 2017-06-10 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in
  62. 2017-06-10 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Rick M girlfriend in
  63. 2017-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  64. 2017-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  65. 2017-06-10 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  66. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  67. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  68. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  69. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  70. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  71. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  72. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam - tightening the nose on the
  73. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  74. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  75. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  76. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  77. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  78. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  79. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbotts lies in its markets
  80. 2017-06-11 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  81. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Time to end the kickbacks and the control
  82. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Time to end the kickbacks and the control
  83. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  84. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  85. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: mod_perl and cgi-script handler
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  87. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Suplementry IT training
  88. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] we'll always have Paris
  89. 2017-06-12 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam: Wow. Ruben is pretty hot on this
  90. 2017-06-11 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #307 - The Perl Conference is nearly
  91. 2017-06-12 From: "APhA's Pharmacy Today" <PTdaily-at-aphanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?June_12=2C_2017=3A_Opioid_Crisis_Comp?=
  92. 2017-06-12 From: "soledad.esteban" <soledad.esteban-at-icp.cat> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [dinosaur] International course on Scientific
  93. 2017-06-13 From: "Chaim Desser" <career-at-poelgroup.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] position to review
  94. 2017-06-13 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TPC here and there
  95. 2017-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] busy today with corruption on linkedin
  96. 2017-06-15 From: "Yi Qian, IEEE ICC'18 TPC Chair" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] IEEE ICC'18 Call for Workshop Proposals &
  97. 2017-06-17 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Guarantee- I am not in
  98. 2017-06-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MTA extortion
  99. 2017-06-19 Mark Halegua <phantom21-at-mindspring.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] MTA extortion
  100. 2017-06-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs
  101. 2017-06-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs
  102. 2017-06-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  103. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  104. 2017-06-23 Mark Wedel <mwedel-at-sonic.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  105. 2017-06-23 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  106. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  107. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  108. 2017-06-23 Matthew Giassa <matthew-at-giassa.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  109. 2017-06-23 Preston Crow <pc-crossfire06-at-crowcastle.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea
  110. 2017-06-23 David Hurst <davidnicholashurst-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  111. 2017-06-23 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  112. 2017-06-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  113. 2017-06-23 From: "Meaningful Beauty" <MeaningfulBeauty-at-islerpatto.stream> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Youthful looking Skin + Free-Shipping
  114. 2017-06-23 David Hurst <davidnicholashurst-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  115. 2017-06-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TED on the threat of AI in the Military
  116. 2017-06-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #309 - csvgrep and the recipe for
  117. 2017-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fishing images
  118. 2017-06-26 opensuse-security-at-opensuse.org Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [security-announce] SUSE-SU-2017:1669-1:
  119. 2017-06-26 opensuse-security-at-opensuse.org Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [security-announce] openSUSE-SU-2017:1685-1:
  120. 2017-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fishing images
  121. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  122. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Expanded World Map (was: Release
  123. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea
  124. 2017-06-27 From: "S." <sman356-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Score: 9 - 0 ! WIN ! on SCOTUS
  125. 2017-06-23 From: "NYU Langone Careers" <nyumccareers-at-symphonytalent.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Follow up from NYU Langone Medical Center
  126. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] family in need
  127. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  128. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  129. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Must See website
  130. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  131. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [manjaro-general] Manjaro-Architect ISO
  132. 2017-06-29 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] time to put down the phone
  133. 2017-06-29 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Lottery programmer rigs systems in 4 states,
  134. 2017-06-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Dinosaur found in Amber

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