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DATE 2017-06-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2017-06-07
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Snowden
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Wed Jun 7 03:27:15 2017
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RT News - not a great source but not a bad article


=E2=80=98I=E2=80=99m comfortable with my choices=E2=80=99: Snowden on CIA =
torture, ISIS and
surveillance
Published time: 6 Nov, 2015 20:16
Edited time: 6 Nov, 2015 20:22
Get short URL
=E2=80=98I=E2=80=99m comfortable with my choices=E2=80=99: Snowden on CIA t=
orture, ISIS and
surveillance
Former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden. =C2=A9 Svein
Ove Ekornesvaag / NTB Scanpix / Reuters
In an interview with Swedish media, whistleblower Edward Snowden opened
up about CIA torture, ISIS, and mass surveillance. Two-and-a-half years
after revealing the NSA=E2=80=99s mass surveillance tactics, he says he=E2=
=80=99s =E2=80=9Cvery
comfortable=E2=80=9D with his choices.

The interview, conducted by journalists Lena Sundstr=C3=B6m and Lotta
H=C3=A4rdelin for Sweden=E2=80=99s Dagens Nyheter newspaper, took place at =
a Moscow
hotel. Just as you might expect at the beginning of an interview, the
two reporters began by asking Snowden how he=E2=80=99s doing.

=E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s hard for me to talk about what it=E2=80=99s like, bec=
ause anything I say
is going to be used by US critics. If I say good things about Russia,
you know, like =E2=80=98it=E2=80=99s not hell,=E2=80=99 then they=E2=80=99l=
l be like =E2=80=98he fell in love
with the Kremlin=E2=80=99 or something like that. If I say something terrib=
le,
then it=E2=80=99s the same thing. Then they=E2=80=99ll go =E2=80=98oh, he h=
ates it in Russia,
you know he=E2=80=99s miserable,=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D Snowden told the journal=
ists.

Look at how well -at-Snowden has learned the tricks of the
Kremlin-obsessed US press https://t.co/ECun3y9QVvpic.twitter.com/1fkWImHlhK
=E2=80=94 Glenn Greenwald (-at-ggreenwald) November 6, 2015

The whistleblower was, however, willing to speak about what he misses
the most =E2=80=93 his family.

=E2=80=9CBut I=E2=80=99m very comfortable with the choices I=E2=80=99ve mad=
e. I can still see my
family when they come here to visit. I can still communicate with anyone
anywhere,=E2=80=9D he said, adding that the conditions of exile have changed
with today=E2=80=99s modern world.

=E2=80=9CIt used to be, when people were pressed into exile, they=E2=80=99d=
lose their
connections, they=E2=80=99d lose their significance, they=E2=80=99d lose th=
eir influence
in the political debate...but technology is changing that. Exile as a
strategy is beginning to fail,=E2=80=9D Snowden said.
On CIA torture

Snowden said it is =E2=80=9Creally just crazy, the way that the US governme=
nt
has handled the issue of torture.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9C...There were indications that there were people in the CIA, who w=
anted
to talk about these things, but who felt stressed. Some even asked to be
moved, because they couldn=E2=80=99t cope with the things they were witness=
ing
and they wanted to do something about it. But instead of providing some
path for these individuals to report the wrongdoings that they were
witnessing, the CIA actually asked them to stop documenting the abuse,=E2=
=80=9D
he stated.
Read more
American whistleblower Edward Snowden =C2=A9 Andrew Kelly Denmark could vote
on Snowden asylum, as MPs get inspired by European Parliament resolution

He accused the US government of choosing to avoid embarrassment by
hiding wrongdoing, rather than actually trying to fix problems =E2=80=93 ev=
en if
that approach could lead to greater, more entrenched threats.

When asked about foreign countries that host black sites and torture
centers, Snowden said they set a bad precedent for the entire world.

=E2=80=9CThese countries begin to think we=E2=80=99re okay with that, these=
are things
we=E2=80=99re willing to do, because if America does it, it must be alright=
...=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9C...But ultimately, these things come out. You can=E2=80=99t keep a=
secret
that=E2=80=99s so horrendous forever. You can keep it for years; you may be=
able
to keep it for decades. But eventually it will come out. And you pay a
moral cost. We actually spend money to shoot ourselves in the foot,=E2=80=
=9D
Snowden said.

When explaining why he thinks the rest of the world turns a blind eye to
such arrangements, the whistleblower said it is =E2=80=9Clegitimized by the
threat of terrorism.=E2=80=9D
On US drone attacks and ISIS

Referring to the so-called =E2=80=98Drone Papers=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 classif=
ied documents about
US drone strikes published by The Intercept in October revealing that
nine out of ten people killed by drones weren=E2=80=99t the intended target=
s =E2=80=93
Snowden stressed that Washington doesn=E2=80=99t target individuals with its
drones, but rather phones.

=E2=80=9CAnd they don=E2=80=99t know whether the terrorist is holding the p=
hone or
whether his mother is holding it. And this is why so many drone strikes
go wrong, why so many wedding parties get hit,=E2=80=9D he said.

READ MORE: Leaked: 'New Snowden' releases Obama's drone program papers

=E2=80=9CWhen I saw the Drone Papers, there wasn=E2=80=99t a question in my=
mind that
this was the most important security story of the year,=E2=80=9D he said.

He added that the drone program =E2=80=9Ccreates more terrorists than it ki=
lls.=E2=80=9D

Snowden had a similar view on ISIS, saying there was =E2=80=9Cno Islamic St=
ate
until we started bombing these states. The biggest threat we face in the
region was born from our own policies.=E2=80=9D

He accused the US of =E2=80=9Cthinking on an emotional level, not a smart
level,=E2=80=9D as it launches an =E2=80=9Cimmediate response that doesn=E2=
=80=99t make sense.=E2=80=9D
On US mass surveillance

Referring to the US mass surveillance tactics that made him a household
name, Snowden said that even those who think they have =E2=80=9Cnothing to =
hide=E2=80=9D
should be against the methods used by the National Security Agency (NSA).
Read more
Former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden. =C2=A9 Andr=
ew
Kelly =E2=80=98Big move in the right direction=E2=80=99: Snowden may see tr=
avel
restrictions ease after EU vote

=E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s not about not having something to hide; it=E2=80=99s =
about having
something to lose. What we lose when we=E2=80=99re under observation is our
humanity. What shapes us, what makes us individuals, is the fact that we
can think, we can develop,=E2=80=9D he said.

He went on to state that =E2=80=9Carguing that you don=E2=80=99t care about=
the right to
privacy because you have nothing to hide, is no different than saying
you don=E2=80=99t care about free speech because you have nothing to say, o=
r the
freedom of press because you=E2=80=99re not a journalist, or the freedom of
religion because you=E2=80=99re not a Christian. Rights in societies are
collective, and individual. You can=E2=80=99t give away the rights of a
minority, even if you vote as a majority. Rights are inherent to our
nature, they=E2=80=99re not granted by governments, they=E2=80=99re guarant=
eed by
governments. They=E2=80=99re protected by governments.=E2=80=9D

Snowden, a former contractor for the NSA, made international headlines
in 2013 when he exposed the US government=E2=80=99s secret mass surveillance
program. He now resides in Russia, where he was granted asylum after
Washington charged him with theft and espionage.

Regarding his whistleblower status, Snowden stressed during the
interview that =E2=80=9Cbeing a whistleblower is not about who you are; it=
=E2=80=99s
about what you=E2=80=99ve seen. Whistleblowers are elected by circumstance,
anybody can do it. It=E2=80=99s about people who watch, who think, and who
eventually respond.=E2=80=9D
-- =

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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  67. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  68. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  69. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  70. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  71. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  72. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam - tightening the nose on the
  73. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  74. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  75. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  76. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  77. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  78. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] PBMs and Rebates... lets not just blame Abbott
  79. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbotts lies in its markets
  80. 2017-06-11 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  81. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Time to end the kickbacks and the control
  82. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Time to end the kickbacks and the control
  83. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  84. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam
  85. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: mod_perl and cgi-script handler
  86. 2017-06-11 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Language Workshops
  87. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Suplementry IT training
  88. 2017-06-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] we'll always have Paris
  89. 2017-06-12 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Abbott Scam: Wow. Ruben is pretty hot on this
  90. 2017-06-11 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #307 - The Perl Conference is nearly
  91. 2017-06-12 From: "APhA's Pharmacy Today" <PTdaily-at-aphanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?June_12=2C_2017=3A_Opioid_Crisis_Comp?=
  92. 2017-06-12 From: "soledad.esteban" <soledad.esteban-at-icp.cat> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [dinosaur] International course on Scientific
  93. 2017-06-13 From: "Chaim Desser" <career-at-poelgroup.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] position to review
  94. 2017-06-13 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TPC here and there
  95. 2017-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] busy today with corruption on linkedin
  96. 2017-06-15 From: "Yi Qian, IEEE ICC'18 TPC Chair" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] IEEE ICC'18 Call for Workshop Proposals &
  97. 2017-06-17 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Hangout of NYLXS] - Guarantee- I am not in
  98. 2017-06-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MTA extortion
  99. 2017-06-19 Mark Halegua <phantom21-at-mindspring.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] MTA extortion
  100. 2017-06-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs
  101. 2017-06-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs
  102. 2017-06-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  103. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  104. 2017-06-23 Mark Wedel <mwedel-at-sonic.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  105. 2017-06-23 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  106. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  107. 2017-06-23 Kevin Zheng <kevinz5000-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  108. 2017-06-23 Matthew Giassa <matthew-at-giassa.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  109. 2017-06-23 Preston Crow <pc-crossfire06-at-crowcastle.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea
  110. 2017-06-23 David Hurst <davidnicholashurst-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  111. 2017-06-23 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  112. 2017-06-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  113. 2017-06-23 From: "Meaningful Beauty" <MeaningfulBeauty-at-islerpatto.stream> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Youthful looking Skin + Free-Shipping
  114. 2017-06-23 David Hurst <davidnicholashurst-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  115. 2017-06-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TED on the threat of AI in the Military
  116. 2017-06-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #309 - csvgrep and the recipe for
  117. 2017-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fishing images
  118. 2017-06-26 opensuse-security-at-opensuse.org Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [security-announce] SUSE-SU-2017:1669-1:
  119. 2017-06-26 opensuse-security-at-opensuse.org Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [security-announce] openSUSE-SU-2017:1685-1:
  120. 2017-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fishing images
  121. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Release proposal
  122. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Expanded World Map (was: Release
  123. 2017-06-26 Rick Tanner <leaf-at-real-time.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [crossfire] Crossfire maps idea
  124. 2017-06-27 From: "S." <sman356-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Score: 9 - 0 ! WIN ! on SCOTUS
  125. 2017-06-23 From: "NYU Langone Careers" <nyumccareers-at-symphonytalent.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Follow up from NYU Langone Medical Center
  126. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] family in need
  127. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  128. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  129. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Must See website
  130. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A train derailment
  131. 2017-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [manjaro-general] Manjaro-Architect ISO
  132. 2017-06-29 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] time to put down the phone
  133. 2017-06-29 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Lottery programmer rigs systems in 4 states,
  134. 2017-06-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Dinosaur found in Amber

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