MESSAGE
DATE | 2021-05-26 |
FROM | Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list
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SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of
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From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Fri May 28 11:50:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (www2.mrbrklyn.com [96.57.23.82]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C83C163FD0; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:50:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Received: by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 04B5D163FD0; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Resent-From: Ruben Safir Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 11:49:53 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <20210528154953.GJ26065-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> Resent-To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com X-Original-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from smtp.gnome.org (restaurant.gnome.org [8.43.85.24]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B51163F60 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 10:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from restaurant.gnome.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE6A8DEA8; Wed, 26 May 2021 14:08:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org Delivered-To: gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) by smtp.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64DB78F504 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 14:08:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id r5so2748156lfr.5 for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 07:08:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=k+JOPzCfgp35GSWw9TJV4sVPglXQweppcSCIcimX9wg=; b=R9o3uO9biIZ5Uryq6S3DF2rytigEnbPmsdMuX18p1767x0E9rhloxFE+Ws4YygsrIS Y//JzGrWrg4o9W3XHxi+Fwbl8OZKEeqijZG/6xV/o/cy4c3VI2mmgkOcBUe418Y63N2p IE2+9vR6PLrwg3Hly2C/JjIOYcA8YJQb2xTaaHza0FQ7QJG2sk5gn11ncNCvv3q3RwVa cPh8+i2HJJrwBnCJUqPpiKpv/SQLLKPyDAFhb50yZEaK0lys25cEzUsp7sSMjesScRW2 I5xcEG94Rnk6FG8bUQEwb8Wjsw5ZEc6x95FIucjvr7BuY2+nBuoWFy24/YQoIaqOmfnD pHDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=k+JOPzCfgp35GSWw9TJV4sVPglXQweppcSCIcimX9wg=; b=qTXIWw2otBMfS2MkFbPtP1IgGGo33pv25+mta2yJJkZVOw/pkcmAllCvE7XC2r7691 4hQCzLT0iJyeBQJzePY9OMOih/TtwF/SeUU2fLe+BTEqpY+L9dx2gWVO5GNrfxnL6zPC Tl2kiAKX0OSiy9R65aTNLWQWyi5xoCHsGLAZRsAavciLwp61wbm2tZbVt+0xmcG+rlif +rVp3/09OcLi4SABsib46EBpJzQAUpmBuKp8Bw0TIcVwhd1/XXTEppmpC6eOdpyaUqhp PcuzGrYvrEqESC4FGfL9DyvXjY2Lw4RcAdkmE+gVL6x3xFejTcYvzSLU9ljkO5Ij3Jj6 pnGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530NF1dDcq+XMA/QC/qB8mfkNaGfjNiOms6XvSwyxDxWQQOIn3Qx vEAqh1kmNrWlxT5i+w1bMdecc+pUe9beM0DPws96lV7LPM7Hsw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysyftcvxMYsdaPR7nHk1wdCmKeEFzbRDwHdcH2Fj31Ez/9w6sXjisIdfRvLzUCAkfr66tyljS6EImQW7rZ/R0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2315:: with SMTP id o21mr1524940lfu.635.1622038125744; Wed, 26 May 2021 07:08:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0A3AFB8B-8BE9-4435-85D7-ED3F570A8BB7-at-me.com> <20210525232641.0000269d-at-secarica.ro> <20210525205732.GF21826-at-wahoo.no-ip.org> <0e620fcb911f406b9be2009ddedb6f3b64d546ce.camel-at-holoweb.net> <20210526095058.601d419e-at-telaviv.shlomifish.org> <20210526120127.GJ21826-at-wahoo.no-ip.org> In-Reply-To: <20210526120127.GJ21826-at-wahoo.no-ip.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 15:08:33 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mailing Lists X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.01 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::12d:from]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 64DB78F504 X-Rspamd-Server: restaurant.gnome.org X-BeenThere: gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list From: Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination X-BeenThere: hangout-at-nylxs.com List-Id: NYLXS Tech Talk and Politics List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Adrian Midgley Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sender: "Hangout"
One point: by all means say the acronymic name of the project and software is sub-optimal, but please provide a proposed better name. And for the acronym? A renaming of those 4 words fails on the first and last I think.
They could be reordered without losing sense:-
GNU Image Manipulation Program could become GNU Manipulating Images Program.
It is a general principle of Open Source movements that nobody may (or can) be prevented from doing the work and offering it, but that also nobody may instruct anyone else that they must do some work.
Offer money, that'd be different, although none of this is work I'd care to bid for.
Gnome. ----------- You seem to be asserting that nobody would be upset by being called a gnome. It isn't so.
However since there are more things than words, some words get used for more than one thing.
Googling for gimp, Gimp or GIMP, I find the first result is for the GNU Image Manipulation Program.
GIMP is a longstanding project, first announced in November 1995
It takes 4 paragraphs down from that to find anything else. (And that's an article in The Register telling us of the formation of Glimpse. It asserts the most modern - new - use of the word - which I'd distinguish from the acronym, but that may be too subtle - gimp is as given by the OP here.
GIMP is a longstanding project, first announced in November 1995
When did gimp start being used in the sense complained of? "gimp leg" occurs in British fiction of I think the 1940s, perhaps earlier, but always in relation to someone wounded in the leg during one of the recent wars, as an adjective, and as a first person description ("my gimp leg"), not a pejorative one about another person. However the use complained of may have arisen more recently.
When? BTW?
I first recall it in contemporary use in a film,Pulp Fiction, referring to someone whose sexual tastes were unusual in a specific way involving a leather suit and mask. I think that unless the fox changes his fur that would not be confused.
"Finally, if you still have strong feelings about the name "GIMP", you should feel free to promote the use of the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program"
Two points in that quote from the project website: it is the acronym GIMP that is offered as the short form name, and the name is the long form.
Glimpse seems a misconceived reaction, and not really to what it was presented as. To fork the project and produce a new one whose mission statement might be "A fork of the GNU Image Manipulation Program Project intended to have exactly one difference: the name, which does not suit everyone for various reasons" would do the job. The OP is as free as anyone else to do so and good luck. I'd suggest that attempting to acquire donations for anything more than the direct cost of duplicating and storing the project would be unwise in terms of effect. Glimpse (not apparently an acronym?)
I'm not bothered, but then I've done no work in the project, whereas the OP has perhaps made many useful contributions, and the maintainers who have thought about it before certainly have.
Adrian Midgley http://defoam.net/ http://defoam.net/photo.defoam.net/
On Wed, 26 May 2021 at 13:01, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > * Shlomi Fish [05-26-21 02:52]: > > On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:45 -0400 > > Liam R E Quin wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > > > > > > > > it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner > > > > to > > > > depict discrimination. as a mere application name, it is not > > > > discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to > > > > consider it so. > > > > > > > > > > Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something > > > unpleasant. The term is used as an insult in some regions. Calling > > > people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to > > > an injury. > > > > > > There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the > > > relationship between people and symbols. The role of tone of voice > > > differs between cultures too. > > > > > > > Hi! > > > > I think people should encourage criticism and learn how to grow a thicker skin > > and to handle crit: > > http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Encourage_criticism_and_try_to_get_offended/ > > yes, even women can and should. i took some insults to my advantage: > > > > * https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer > > > > * https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/the-eternal-jew/#reception > > > > * https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/nicknames.xhtml > > yes, we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them. and they > should only be admonished when directly related to *intentionally* causing > harm or discomfort to an individual or group. keyword being > "intentionally". > > > -- > (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA -at-ptilopteri > http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri > Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka -at- IRCnet freenode > _______________________________________________ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address: gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list List address: gimp-user-list-at-gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list _______________________________________________ Hangout mailing list Hangout-at-nylxs.com http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
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