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DATE 2004-08-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2004-08-01
FROM Adam Kosmin
SUBJECT Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!

This guy is no sysadmin (by my standards) and has no appreciation for
Free Software. He's a perfect example of how the Open Source movement is
hurting the Free Software movement.

Adam


" Does this mean SysAdmins are going to revolt?
"
" --
" "In The Business World
" An Executive Knows Something About Everything,
" A Technician Knows Everything About Something,
" And the Switchboard Operator Knows Everything."
"
" No one person is smarter than their team!
"
"
"
"
" > -----Original Message-----
" > From: Adam Kosmin [mailto:akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com]
" > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 1:58 PM
" > To: Inker, Evan
" > Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
" > Subject: Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation,
" > stupid!
" >
" >
" > From a sysadmin's point of view, this is the laaaaaaaaaaamest thing I've
" > read in a long time.
" >
" > Adam
" >
" > " Here's a Letter every Sys/Admin has wanted to send to at least 1
" > " Developer/Programmer....
" > "
" > " SysAdmin to SysAdmin ,
" > " Administration
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > "
" >
" > " SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
" > "
" > "
" > " Wednesday July 28, 2004 (08:01 AM GMT)
" > "
" > " By: Brian Jones
" > "
" > " Dear open source developers: We sysadmins are tired of the crap you've
" > been
" > " throwing at us. It seems you've been assuming all these years that we
" > " sysadmins are coders, and thus, "the code is the documentation." In
" > reality,
" > " we are not coders. We are systems administrators, which is precisely
" > why the
" > " word "coder" does not appear on anything which also has our name on it
" > --
" > " and thus, your mantra is no longer cute.
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > " We are but lowly sods who mill about in the background, ensuring
" > things like
" > " email and backup are working, and that users can get to the resources
" > they
" > " need to do their jobs. Some of these users are even coders; but not
" > us.
" > "
" > " We wish not for fame, but for stability. We dream not of the next
" > killer
" > " app, but rather have nightmares about the next killer worm. We don't
" > look
" > " forward to going to work every day to mangle bits, but rather to leave
" > " without maiming a luser.
" > "
" > " We are the Men In Black, completely invisible to all but those who
" > seek our
" > " help (or who market products to us). We want to be in the background
" > as much
" > " as possible. We don't even want to talk to others who aren't
" > sysadmins.
" > " We'll go so far as to refrain from joining a single mailing list, so
" > as to
" > " avoid the temptation of asking a question in some public forum, lest
" > we be
" > " deemed foolish in some way. Our greatest wish is that those who come
" > into
" > " contact with us forget that we even exist only seconds after they
" > leave. We
" > " would kill for one of those "flashy things" like Tommy Lee Jones had
" > in that
" > " movie.
" > "
" > " However, thanks to you open source developers, we instead look like a
" > " conspicuous flock of shiny-headed, drooling lunatics, incapable of
" > " deciphering even the simplest of tasks.
" > "
" > " Why systems administrators don't use your stuff
" > "
" > " You probably really do have the next killer app. You probably shout
" > about it
" > " on every BBS and every mailing list possible.
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > " > 1027
" > " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > " > 1027
" > " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
" > "
" > " You've posted your release announcements to NewsForge. You even got
" > " Slashdotted once. But still, nobody is downloading, and that email
" > link on
" > " your site saying "tell me if you're using it in production" hasn't
" > been
" > " clicked on even a single time. You spend hours coding, coding, coding.
" > You
" > " spend more hours promoting and generally keeping up with all things
" > open
" > " source. You have an infinite number of IRC buddies who think you are
" > 70t-at-||y
" > " 1337.
" > "
" > " Whatever. I'm not using it, and I'll tell you why. There is no
" > " documentation.
" > "
" > " When I say "there is no documentation," I don't necessarily mean that
" > there
" > " is literally not a single file containing English text. What I mean is
" > that
" > " there has not been one ounce of energy expended on the part of the
" > developer
" > " to make clear the ideas behind the creation of your alleged
" > masterpiece. Not
" > " an ounce of consideration has been given to the administrator who must
" > " implement, maintain, upgrade, support, troubleshoot, roll back, and
" > yes,
" > " possibly even hack it into submission using (gasp) actual code. There
" > are no
" > " "gotchas" listed anywhere in the README file, there is nothing but the
" > " default INSTALL file, and the most thoughtfully created file in the
" > entire
" > " tarball is the file that gives thanks to all the people involved. And
" > this
" > " is just the source tree I'm talking about.
" > "
" > " GUI apps have a Help menu with nothing listed in there but an "about"
" > " option, which pops up the slickest little thing I've ever seen. It
" > must have
" > " taken hours to create - and yet, there is no documentation worth
" > looking at!
" > " Please get your priorities straight, or delist your freshmeat project.
" > "
" > " Sysadmins don't use your stuff because your documentation is
" > disgusting.
" > " Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go write some. The bigger
" > problem
" > " for you coders, really, is that there are usually 20 different
" > packages on
" > " freshmeat that all do the same thing. Of those 20, probably one or two
" > have
" > " real-life, usable documentation. With documentation, I can get to know
" > the
" > " software. Then I'll install it on a test box. If it works, great, I'm
" > " tickled pink. If it doesn't quite work, then I'm interested in giving
" > " feedback, because here's someone who will roll it back into the
" > product or
" > " the documentation. This is a useful cycle that benefits millions, not
" > the
" > " least of which is the coder! Documentation ends up resulting in a more
" > " mature product! Wake up!
" > "
" > " The code is NOT the documentation
" > "
" > " The code might've been the documentation to some degree back when 90%
" > of the
" > " programs were written with 10% of the available programming languages.
" > " Nowadays, this doesn't fly. As an administrator, my job is to keep up
" > with
" > " the latest and greatest in strategies and technologies involved in
" > deploying
" > " services for the benefit of some user base. I sift through information
" > " looking for something relevant to my environment, filter that out, and
" > start
" > " looking at software options I can use to deploy a service in a
" > particular
" > " way. Nowhere in my job description does it say that I have to learn
" > every
" > " new programming language in the event that someone develops a useful
" > piece
" > " of software in it.
" > "
" > " I'm not even supposed to be looking at what language it's done in. I
" > " shouldn't have to care. You shouldn't want me to care. Hell, you
" > shouldn't
" > " even want me to know about the different programming languages! Think
" > of all
" > " the Java apps I might've deployed if not for the fact that I know it
" > rather
" > " intimately and avoid it like the plague! But if the code is the
" > " documentation, this pretty much forces the issue of getting into the
" > guts of
" > " all of these languages, not to mention buying way too many O'Reilly
" > books.
" > "
" > " No, my job is to read the documentation available for the software.
" > The goal
" > " in this stage of research is to get the coder's philosophy on dealing
" > with
" > " the problem at hand. Hopefully, I can find an explanation that fits my
" > " brain. Once that's done, it's time to read on through the technical
" > side of
" > " the documentation to gain an understanding of the implications of
" > deploying
" > " said software. What does the software need? How does it do its job?
" > How does
" > " it handle concurrent users? How much memory will it take under some
" > example
" > " load? What ports does it open? How do I secure this thing? Does this
" > replace
" > " another tool I'm already using? Why should I use it if I'm already
" > using
" > " another app that seems to do the same thing? What other pieces of
" > software
" > " complement this one? How is that software traditionally configured so
" > that
" > " this software can take advantage of it?
" > "
" > " I could go on like this for days. Really. So can most other
" > administrators,
" > " about random packages, or no packages at all. Our job is to be
" > skeptical,
" > " lazy, and a bit suspicious. We ask questions as much to justify our
" > " skepticism as to gain knowledge. Your job, as a coder, is to either
" > answer a
" > " reasonable number of our questions up front (and point to a place
" > where even
" > " more are answered), or get an open source devotee to volunteer to help
" > you
" > " write the documentation for you. Please do so.
" > "
" > " Exceptions? There are none. I've seen CLI programs that take only five
" > or
" > " six flags, but there's nothing there to tell me how they actually do
" > their
" > " job. Is it largefile aware? Is it scriptable? Is it comparing values
" > before
" > " or after operation "x"? Sure, I'm an experienced systems guy, so I
" > know how
" > " systems generally work, and I understand a good number of system
" > calls; this
" > " doesn't mean I should have to run strace or tcpdump to get a grip on
" > what
" > " this thing is doing!
" > "
" > " I have refrained from naming names here. It would serve no useful
" > purpose,
" > " as my sysadmin colleagues can probably think of exactly the projects
" > I'm
" > " talking about (as can the respective coders). I hope that this open
" > letter
" > " gives someone some insight into how systems administrators approach
" > finding
" > " a solution to a problem.
" > "
" > " Sincerely yours,
" > " Brian Jones
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > "
" > ************************************************************************
" > ****
" > " This message contains confidential information and is intended only
" > " for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named
" > addressee
" > " you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
" > " Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
" > " this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
" > " E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
" > " as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
" > arrive
" > " late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
" > " accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
" > " message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
" > " If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
" > " This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
" > " be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities
" > or
" > " related financial instruments.
" > " GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is
" > " regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
" > "
" > ************************************************************************
" > ****
" > "
" >
" > --
" >
" > "Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my
" > line of reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our
" > complaint to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a
" > lot of the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what
" > it is."
" >
" > -- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03
" > ____________________________
" > NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
" > Fair Use -
" > because it's either fair use or useless....
" > NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
"
"

--

"Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my
line of reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our
complaint to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a
lot of the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what
it is."

-- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03
____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2004-08-31 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  2. 2004-08-31 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  3. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  4. 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  5. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Assembly
  6. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  7. 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  8. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  9. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  10. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  11. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis
  12. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis
  13. 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  14. 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  15. 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mepis
  16. 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  17. 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  18. 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis
  19. 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [malmonte-at-searchedp.com: Oracle DBA]
  20. 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis
  21. 2004-08-31 mike hjorleifsson <mikeh-at-dtev.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis
  22. 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Exploiting the Potential of Linux
  23. 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day.
  24. 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: when 0+1=1
  25. 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] GTK: When 0 + 1 = 0
  26. 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK: When 0 + 1 = 0
  27. 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] App tests for Win XP SP2 burden users
  28. 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day.
  29. 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day.
  30. 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Migrating Windows to Linux -- and back -- and forth
  31. 2004-08-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software freedom day.
  32. 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: information on New York Linux Scene
  33. 2004-08-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Is Linux too good to be true?
  34. 2004-08-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD
  35. 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Is Linux too good to be true?
  36. 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Reiser4 is released!
  37. 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day 2004 - Sat Aug 28, 2004 (Public Transportati on
  38. 2004-08-24 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru)
  39. 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So you think you know Unix
  40. 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M
  41. 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials
  42. 2004-08-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Projector screen
  43. 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M
  44. 2004-08-24 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials
  45. 2004-08-24 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and
  46. 2004-08-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M aterials
  47. 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M
  48. 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M
  49. 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials
  50. 2004-08-24 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and
  51. 2004-08-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru)
  52. 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials
  53. 2004-08-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] free culture
  54. 2004-08-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru)
  55. 2004-08-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Posting flyers
  56. 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] New York State Fair - Aug 26 - Sept 06, 2004
  57. 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYS County Fairs (Still some left before end of Summer)
  58. 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Posting flyers
  59. 2004-08-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Data to Callback Functions
  60. 2004-08-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Data to Callback Functions
  61. 2004-08-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Windows users are reminded that MS products are faulty.
  62. 2004-08-22 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!!
  63. 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] repacking boxes and keeping a handle on the toplevel window and all it's chidren
  64. 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: GTK Documentation error
  65. 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] sven-at-gimp.org: Re: GTK Documentation error
  66. 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK Documentation error
  67. 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!!
  68. 2004-08-22 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!!
  69. 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!!
  70. 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Buying Linux System out of the Box
  71. 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Efforts to undermine Free Software
  72. 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Movie Studios Lose In Case Against File-Sharing Apps
  73. 2004-08-21 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Posting flyers
  74. 2004-08-20 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Posting flyers
  75. 2004-08-20 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system.
  76. 2004-08-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system.
  77. 2004-08-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] OSDL introduces improved Linux kernel development tool
  78. 2004-08-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Makefile problem
  79. 2004-08-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [Politics] Typical Bush method of handling the press.] (fwd)
  80. 2004-08-19 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Define an operating system.
  81. 2004-08-19 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system.
  82. 2004-08-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  83. 2004-08-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK Clinical Application Development
  84. 2004-08-18 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  85. 2004-08-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  86. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Makefile problem
  87. 2004-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting Linux off the Ground
  88. 2004-08-18 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  89. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  90. 2004-08-18 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Compiler.
  91. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler.
  92. 2004-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Compiler.
  93. 2004-08-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at L
  94. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at LinuxWorld Conf erence & Expo
  95. 2004-08-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Upcoming August / Sept 2004 Meetings - Various LUGS (Other than N
  96. 2004-08-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: Software Freedom Day 2004 Posters/ Handouts/Flyers etc
  97. 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] projector
  98. 2004-08-16 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] projector
  99. 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] projector
  100. 2004-08-16 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] projector
  101. 2004-08-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Software Freedom Day (fwd)
  102. 2004-08-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Explain this to me.
  103. 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me.
  104. 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me.
  105. 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back
  106. 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Explain this to me.
  107. 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me.
  108. 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month
  109. 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back
  110. 2004-08-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month
  111. 2004-08-16 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Subject: [hangout] Cheap Place to Buy Rackmount Servers
  112. 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] BAN THE IRANIANS - NOW!
  113. 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back
  114. 2004-08-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back
  115. 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back
  116. 2004-08-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month
  117. 2004-08-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Software Freedom Day (fwd)
  118. 2004-08-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day (fwd)
  119. 2004-08-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl Web Applications Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York]
  120. 2004-08-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Senior Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn]
  121. 2004-08-12 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] M1 Abrams tank is powered by a gas turbine.
  122. 2004-08-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] M1 Abrams tank is powered by a gas turbine.
  123. 2004-08-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: business
  124. 2004-08-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  125. 2004-08-10 Shani Safir <shani-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] imtesting mutt
  126. 2004-08-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: [NMLUG] SSH bot going around
  127. 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] pet projects??
  128. 2004-08-10 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] pet projects??
  129. 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] pet projects??
  130. 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: RE: I want to donate computers]
  131. 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  132. 2004-08-10 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  133. 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  134. 2004-08-10 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  135. 2004-08-10 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  136. 2004-08-10 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] pet projects??
  137. 2004-08-10 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] pet projects??
  138. 2004-08-10 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  139. 2004-08-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS August 2004 Events (More to Come!)
  140. 2004-08-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM Linux LPI On-Line Courses
  141. 2004-08-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Developing Nations See Linux as a Savior From Microsoft's Grip
  142. 2004-08-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sunny Boy
  143. 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP unveils Linux-based laptop
  144. 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at LinuxWorld Conf
  145. 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Thin client' computing pushed as Windows alternative
  146. 2004-08-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason/Alzabo Programmer (telecommute), United States]
  147. 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Novell-at-sy10.net: You're Invited: Linux in Your Enterprise Webinars by Novell]
  148. 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Promo Printed Materials Needed
  149. 2004-08-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Promo Printed Materials Needed
  150. 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] DVD-copying trailblazer shuts its doors
  151. 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell's SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 Marks Major Step Forward in
  152. 2004-08-04 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Trade deal exports DMCA down under (fwd)
  153. 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nived_g-at-hotmail.com: Linare Linux Professional Edition]
  154. 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  155. 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] ls weirdness
  156. 2004-08-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Yoper - The Fastest Linux
  157. 2004-08-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  158. 2004-08-03 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Nasty Company
  159. 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  160. 2004-08-02 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  161. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Study: Linux may infringe on 283 patents
  162. 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  163. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open-Xchange Moves to Open Source License
  164. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell to debut server Linux update
  165. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun mulls buying Novell
  166. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Xandros To Roll Out Myriad Servers After Desktop Release
  167. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  168. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  169. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  170. 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  171. 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  172. 2004-08-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  173. 2004-08-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  174. 2004-08-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  175. 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  176. 2004-08-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  177. 2004-08-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!
  178. 2004-08-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  179. 2004-08-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] BIOS Virus?
  180. 2004-08-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus?

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