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DATE 2004-08-01 HANGOUT 2024-04-25 | 2024-03-25 | 2024-02-25 | 2024-01-25 | 2023-12-25 | 2023-11-25 | 2023-10-25 | 2023-09-25 | 2023-08-25 | 2023-07-25 | 2023-06-25 | 2023-05-25 | 2023-04-25 | 2023-03-25 | 2023-02-25 | 2023-01-25 | 2022-12-25 | 2022-11-25 | 2022-10-25 | 2022-09-25 | 2022-08-25 | 2022-07-25 | 2022-06-25 | 2022-05-25 | 2022-04-25 | 2022-03-25 | 2022-02-25 | 2022-01-25 | 2021-12-25 | 2021-11-25 | 2021-10-25 | 2021-09-25 | 2021-08-25 | 2021-07-25 | 2021-06-25 | 2021-05-25 | 2021-04-25 | 2021-03-25 | 2021-02-25 | 2021-01-25 | 2020-12-25 | 2020-11-25 | 2020-10-25 | 2020-09-25 | 2020-08-25 | 2020-07-25 | 2020-06-25 | 2020-05-25 | 2020-04-25 | 2020-03-25 | 2020-02-25 | 2020-01-25 | 2019-12-25 | 2019-11-25 | 2019-10-25 | 2019-09-25 | 2019-08-25 | 2019-07-25 | 2019-06-25 | 2019-05-25 | 2019-04-25 | 2019-03-25 | 2019-02-25 | 2019-01-25 | 2018-12-25 | 2018-11-25 | 2018-10-25 | 2018-09-25 | 2018-08-25 | 2018-07-25 | 2018-06-25 | 2018-05-25 | 2018-04-25 | 2018-03-25 | 2018-02-25 | 2018-01-25 | 2017-12-25 | 2017-11-25 | 2017-10-25 | 2017-09-25 | 2017-08-25 | 2017-07-25 | 2017-06-25 | 2017-05-25 | 2017-04-25 | 2017-03-25 | 2017-02-25 | 2017-01-25 | 2016-12-25 | 2016-11-25 | 2016-10-25 | 2016-09-25 | 2016-08-25 | 2016-07-25 | 2016-06-25 | 2016-05-25 | 2016-04-25 | 2016-03-25 | 2016-02-25 | 2016-01-25 | 2015-12-25 | 2015-11-25 | 2015-10-25 | 2015-09-25 | 2015-08-25 | 2015-07-25 | 2015-06-25 | 2015-05-25 | 2015-04-25 | 2015-03-25 | 2015-02-25 | 2015-01-25 | 2014-12-25 | 2014-11-25 | 2014-10-25 | 2014-09-25 | 2014-08-25 | 2014-07-25 | 2014-06-25 | 2014-05-25 | 2014-04-25 | 2014-03-25 | 2014-02-25 | 2014-01-25 | 2013-12-25 | 2013-11-25 | 2013-10-25 | 2013-09-25 | 2013-08-25 | 2013-07-25 | 2013-06-25 | 2013-05-25 | 2013-04-25 | 2013-03-25 | 2013-02-25 | 2013-01-25 | 2012-12-25 | 2012-11-25 | 2012-10-25 | 2012-09-25 | 2012-08-25 | 2012-07-25 | 2012-06-25 | 2012-05-25 | 2012-04-25 | 2012-03-25 | 2012-02-25 | 2012-01-25 | 2011-12-25 | 2011-11-25 | 2011-10-25 | 2011-09-25 | 2011-08-25 | 2011-07-25 | 2011-06-25 | 2011-05-25 | 2011-04-25 | 2011-03-25 | 2011-02-25 | 2011-01-25 | 2010-12-25 | 2010-11-25 | 2010-10-25 | 2010-09-25 | 2010-08-25 | 2010-07-25 | 2010-06-25 | 2010-05-25 | 2010-04-25 | 2010-03-25 | 2010-02-25 | 2010-01-25 | 2009-12-25 | 2009-11-25 | 2009-10-25 | 2009-09-25 | 2009-08-25 | 2009-07-25 | 2009-06-25 | 2009-05-25 | 2009-04-25 | 2009-03-25 | 2009-02-25 | 2009-01-25 | 2008-12-25 | 2008-11-25 | 2008-10-25 | 2008-09-25 | 2008-08-25 | 2008-07-25 | 2008-06-25 | 2008-05-25 | 2008-04-25 | 2008-03-25 | 2008-02-25 | 2008-01-25 | 2007-12-25 | 2007-11-25 | 2007-10-25 | 2007-09-25 | 2007-08-25 | 2007-07-25 | 2007-06-25 | 2007-05-25 | 2007-04-25 | 2007-03-25 | 2007-02-25 | 2007-01-25 | 2006-12-25 | 2006-11-25 | 2006-10-25 | 2006-09-25 | 2006-08-25 | 2006-07-25 | 2006-06-25 | 2006-05-25 | 2006-04-25 | 2006-03-25 | 2006-02-25 | 2006-01-25 | 2005-12-25 | 2005-11-25 | 2005-10-25 | 2005-09-25 | 2005-08-25 | 2005-07-25 | 2005-06-25 | 2005-05-25 | 2005-04-25 | 2005-03-25 | 2005-02-25 | 2005-01-25 | 2004-12-25 | 2004-11-25 | 2004-10-25 | 2004-09-25 | 2004-08-25 | 2004-07-25 | 2004-06-25 | 2004-05-25 | 2004-04-25 | 2004-03-25 | 2004-02-25 | 2004-01-25 | 2003-12-25 | 2003-11-25 | 2003-10-25 | 2003-09-25 | 2003-08-25 | 2003-07-25 | 2003-06-25 | 2003-05-25 | 2003-04-25 | 2003-03-25 | 2003-02-25 | 2003-01-25 | 2002-12-25 | 2002-11-25 | 2002-10-25 | 2002-09-25 | 2002-08-25 | 2002-07-25 | 2002-06-25 | 2002-05-25 | 2002-04-25 | 2002-03-25 | 2002-02-25 | 2002-01-25 | 2001-12-25 | 2001-11-25 | 2001-10-25 | 2001-09-25 | 2001-08-25 | 2001-07-25 | 2001-06-25 | 2001-05-25 | 2001-04-25 | 2001-03-25 | 2001-02-25 | 2001-01-25 | 2000-12-25 | 2000-11-25 | 2000-10-25 | 2000-09-25 | 2000-08-25 | 2000-07-25 | 2000-06-25 | 2000-05-25 | 2000-04-25 | 2000-03-25 | 2000-02-25 | 2000-01-25 | 1999-12-25 Key: Value: Key: Value: MESSAGE DATE 2004-08-01 FROM Adam Kosmin SUBJECT Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d! This guy is no sysadmin (by my standards) and has no appreciation for Free Software. He's a perfect example of how the Open Source movement is hurting the Free Software movement. Adam " Does this mean SysAdmins are going to revolt? " " -- " "In The Business World " An Executive Knows Something About Everything, " A Technician Knows Everything About Something, " And the Switchboard Operator Knows Everything." " " No one person is smarter than their team! " " " " " > -----Original Message----- " > From: Adam Kosmin [mailto:akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com] " > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 1:58 PM " > To: Inker, Evan " > Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com " > Subject: Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, " > stupid! " > " > " > From a sysadmin's point of view, this is the laaaaaaaaaaamest thing I've " > read in a long time. " > " > Adam " > " > " Here's a Letter every Sys/Admin has wanted to send to at least 1 " > " Developer/Programmer.... " > " " > " SysAdmin to SysAdmin , " > " Administration " > " " > " " > " " > " " > " " > " " > " > " SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid! " > " " > " " > " Wednesday July 28, 2004 (08:01 AM GMT) " > " " > " By: Brian Jones " > " " > " Dear open source developers: We sysadmins are tired of the crap you've " > been " > " throwing at us. It seems you've been assuming all these years that we " > " sysadmins are coders, and thus, "the code is the documentation." In " > reality, " > " we are not coders. We are systems administrators, which is precisely " > why the " > " word "coder" does not appear on anything which also has our name on it " > -- " > " and thus, your mantra is no longer cute. " > " " > " " > " " > " We are but lowly sods who mill about in the background, ensuring " > things like " > " email and backup are working, and that users can get to the resources " > they " > " need to do their jobs. Some of these users are even coders; but not " > us. " > " " > " We wish not for fame, but for stability. We dream not of the next " > killer " > " app, but rather have nightmares about the next killer worm. We don't " > look " > " forward to going to work every day to mangle bits, but rather to leave " > " without maiming a luser. " > " " > " We are the Men In Black, completely invisible to all but those who " > seek our " > " help (or who market products to us). We want to be in the background " > as much " > " as possible. We don't even want to talk to others who aren't " > sysadmins. " > " We'll go so far as to refrain from joining a single mailing list, so " > as to " > " avoid the temptation of asking a question in some public forum, lest " > we be " > " deemed foolish in some way. Our greatest wish is that those who come " > into " > " contact with us forget that we even exist only seconds after they " > leave. We " > " would kill for one of those "flashy things" like Tommy Lee Jones had " > in that " > " movie. " > " " > " However, thanks to you open source developers, we instead look like a " > " conspicuous flock of shiny-headed, drooling lunatics, incapable of " > " deciphering even the simplest of tasks. " > " " > " Why systems administrators don't use your stuff " > " " > " You probably really do have the next killer app. You probably shout " > about it " > " on every BBS and every mailing list possible. " > " " > " " > " " > " > 1027 " > " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl> " > " " > " " > " " > " " > " > 1027 " > " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl> " > " " > " You've posted your release announcements to NewsForge. You even got " > " Slashdotted once. But still, nobody is downloading, and that email " > link on " > " your site saying "tell me if you're using it in production" hasn't " > been " > " clicked on even a single time. You spend hours coding, coding, coding. " > You " > " spend more hours promoting and generally keeping up with all things " > open " > " source. You have an infinite number of IRC buddies who think you are " > 70t-at-||y " > " 1337. " > " " > " Whatever. I'm not using it, and I'll tell you why. There is no " > " documentation. " > " " > " When I say "there is no documentation," I don't necessarily mean that " > there " > " is literally not a single file containing English text. What I mean is " > that " > " there has not been one ounce of energy expended on the part of the " > developer " > " to make clear the ideas behind the creation of your alleged " > masterpiece. Not " > " an ounce of consideration has been given to the administrator who must " > " implement, maintain, upgrade, support, troubleshoot, roll back, and " > yes, " > " possibly even hack it into submission using (gasp) actual code. There " > are no " > " "gotchas" listed anywhere in the README file, there is nothing but the " > " default INSTALL file, and the most thoughtfully created file in the " > entire " > " tarball is the file that gives thanks to all the people involved. And " > this " > " is just the source tree I'm talking about. " > " " > " GUI apps have a Help menu with nothing listed in there but an "about" " > " option, which pops up the slickest little thing I've ever seen. It " > must have " > " taken hours to create - and yet, there is no documentation worth " > looking at! " > " Please get your priorities straight, or delist your freshmeat project. " > " " > " Sysadmins don't use your stuff because your documentation is " > disgusting. " > " Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go write some. The bigger " > problem " > " for you coders, really, is that there are usually 20 different " > packages on " > " freshmeat that all do the same thing. Of those 20, probably one or two " > have " > " real-life, usable documentation. With documentation, I can get to know " > the " > " software. Then I'll install it on a test box. If it works, great, I'm " > " tickled pink. If it doesn't quite work, then I'm interested in giving " > " feedback, because here's someone who will roll it back into the " > product or " > " the documentation. This is a useful cycle that benefits millions, not " > the " > " least of which is the coder! Documentation ends up resulting in a more " > " mature product! Wake up! " > " " > " The code is NOT the documentation " > " " > " The code might've been the documentation to some degree back when 90% " > of the " > " programs were written with 10% of the available programming languages. " > " Nowadays, this doesn't fly. As an administrator, my job is to keep up " > with " > " the latest and greatest in strategies and technologies involved in " > deploying " > " services for the benefit of some user base. I sift through information " > " looking for something relevant to my environment, filter that out, and " > start " > " looking at software options I can use to deploy a service in a " > particular " > " way. Nowhere in my job description does it say that I have to learn " > every " > " new programming language in the event that someone develops a useful " > piece " > " of software in it. " > " " > " I'm not even supposed to be looking at what language it's done in. I " > " shouldn't have to care. You shouldn't want me to care. Hell, you " > shouldn't " > " even want me to know about the different programming languages! Think " > of all " > " the Java apps I might've deployed if not for the fact that I know it " > rather " > " intimately and avoid it like the plague! But if the code is the " > " documentation, this pretty much forces the issue of getting into the " > guts of " > " all of these languages, not to mention buying way too many O'Reilly " > books. " > " " > " No, my job is to read the documentation available for the software. " > The goal " > " in this stage of research is to get the coder's philosophy on dealing " > with " > " the problem at hand. Hopefully, I can find an explanation that fits my " > " brain. Once that's done, it's time to read on through the technical " > side of " > " the documentation to gain an understanding of the implications of " > deploying " > " said software. What does the software need? How does it do its job? " > How does " > " it handle concurrent users? How much memory will it take under some " > example " > " load? What ports does it open? How do I secure this thing? Does this " > replace " > " another tool I'm already using? Why should I use it if I'm already " > using " > " another app that seems to do the same thing? What other pieces of " > software " > " complement this one? How is that software traditionally configured so " > that " > " this software can take advantage of it? " > " " > " I could go on like this for days. Really. So can most other " > administrators, " > " about random packages, or no packages at all. Our job is to be " > skeptical, " > " lazy, and a bit suspicious. We ask questions as much to justify our " > " skepticism as to gain knowledge. Your job, as a coder, is to either " > answer a " > " reasonable number of our questions up front (and point to a place " > where even " > " more are answered), or get an open source devotee to volunteer to help " > you " > " write the documentation for you. Please do so. " > " " > " Exceptions? There are none. I've seen CLI programs that take only five " > or " > " six flags, but there's nothing there to tell me how they actually do " > their " > " job. Is it largefile aware? Is it scriptable? Is it comparing values " > before " > " or after operation "x"? Sure, I'm an experienced systems guy, so I " > know how " > " systems generally work, and I understand a good number of system " > calls; this " > " doesn't mean I should have to run strace or tcpdump to get a grip on " > what " > " this thing is doing! " > " " > " I have refrained from naming names here. It would serve no useful " > purpose, " > " as my sysadmin colleagues can probably think of exactly the projects " > I'm " > " talking about (as can the respective coders). I hope that this open " > letter " > " gives someone some insight into how systems administrators approach " > finding " > " a solution to a problem. " > " " > " Sincerely yours, " > " Brian Jones " > " " > " " > " " > " " > ************************************************************************ " > **** " > " This message contains confidential information and is intended only " > " for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named " > addressee " > " you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. " > " Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received " > " this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. " > " E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free " > " as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, " > arrive " > " late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not " > " accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this " > " message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. " > " If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. " > " This message is provided for informational purposes and should not " > " be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities " > or " > " related financial instruments. " > " GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is " > " regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required. " > " " > ************************************************************************ " > **** " > " " > " > -- " > " > "Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my " > line of reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our " > complaint to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a " > lot of the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what " > it is." " > " > -- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03 " > ____________________________ " > NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene " > Fair Use - " > because it's either fair use or useless.... " > NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc " " -- "Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my line of reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our complaint to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a lot of the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what it is." -- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03 ____________________________ NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc 2004-08-31 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly 2004-08-31 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Assembly 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [malmonte-at-searchedp.com: Oracle DBA] 2004-08-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 mike hjorleifsson <mikeh-at-dtev.com> Re: [hangout] Mepis 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Exploiting the Potential of Linux 2004-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day. 2004-08-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: when 0+1=1 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] GTK: When 0 + 1 = 0 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK: When 0 + 1 = 0 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] App tests for Win XP SP2 burden users 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day. 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom day. 2004-08-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Migrating Windows to Linux -- and back -- and forth 2004-08-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software freedom day. 2004-08-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: information on New York Linux Scene 2004-08-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Is Linux too good to be true? 2004-08-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Is Linux too good to be true? 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Reiser4 is released! 2004-08-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day 2004 - Sat Aug 28, 2004 (Public Transportati on 2004-08-24 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru) 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So you think you know Unix 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials 2004-08-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Projector screen 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M 2004-08-24 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials 2004-08-24 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and 2004-08-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M aterials 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and M 2004-08-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials 2004-08-24 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and 2004-08-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru) 2004-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD 2004 - Need Help Picking Up Completed CDs and Materials 2004-08-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] free culture 2004-08-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: allofmp3.com (ru) 2004-08-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Posting flyers 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] New York State Fair - Aug 26 - Sept 06, 2004 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYS County Fairs (Still some left before end of Summer) 2004-08-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Posting flyers 2004-08-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Data to Callback Functions 2004-08-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Data to Callback Functions 2004-08-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Windows users are reminded that MS products are faulty. 2004-08-22 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!! 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] repacking boxes and keeping a handle on the toplevel window and all it's chidren 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: GTK Documentation error 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] sven-at-gimp.org: Re: GTK Documentation error 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK Documentation error 2004-08-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!! 2004-08-22 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Re: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!! 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom is in the AIR!! 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Buying Linux System out of the Box 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Efforts to undermine Free Software 2004-08-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Movie Studios Lose In Case Against File-Sharing Apps 2004-08-21 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Posting flyers 2004-08-20 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Posting flyers 2004-08-20 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system. 2004-08-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system. 2004-08-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] OSDL introduces improved Linux kernel development tool 2004-08-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Makefile problem 2004-08-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [Politics] Typical Bush method of handling the press.] (fwd) 2004-08-19 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Define an operating system. 2004-08-19 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] Define an operating system. 2004-08-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GTK Clinical Application Development 2004-08-18 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Makefile problem 2004-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting Linux off the Ground 2004-08-18 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Compiler. 2004-08-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at L 2004-08-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at LinuxWorld Conf erence & Expo 2004-08-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Upcoming August / Sept 2004 Meetings - Various LUGS (Other than N 2004-08-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: Software Freedom Day 2004 Posters/ Handouts/Flyers etc 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] projector 2004-08-16 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] projector 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] projector 2004-08-16 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] projector 2004-08-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Software Freedom Day (fwd) 2004-08-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Explain this to me. 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me. 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me. 2004-08-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Explain this to me. 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Explain this to me. 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month 2004-08-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back 2004-08-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month 2004-08-16 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Subject: [hangout] Cheap Place to Buy Rackmount Servers 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] BAN THE IRANIANS - NOW! 2004-08-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back 2004-08-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back 2004-08-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Yellow Dog Bites Back 2004-08-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting and NYLXS Map for the next Month 2004-08-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Software Freedom Day (fwd) 2004-08-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day (fwd) 2004-08-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl Web Applications Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York] 2004-08-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Senior Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn] 2004-08-12 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] M1 Abrams tank is powered by a gas turbine. 2004-08-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] M1 Abrams tank is powered by a gas turbine. 2004-08-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: business 2004-08-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today 2004-08-10 Shani Safir <shani-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] imtesting mutt 2004-08-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: [NMLUG] SSH bot going around 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] pet projects?? 2004-08-10 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] pet projects?? 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] pet projects?? 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: RE: I want to donate computers] 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] pet projects?? 2004-08-10 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] pet projects?? 2004-08-10 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS August 2004 Events (More to Come!) 2004-08-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM Linux LPI On-Line Courses 2004-08-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Developing Nations See Linux as a Savior From Microsoft's Grip 2004-08-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sunny Boy 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP unveils Linux-based laptop 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Winners of Product Excellence Awards Announced at LinuxWorld Conf 2004-08-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Thin client' computing pushed as Windows alternative 2004-08-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason/Alzabo Programmer (telecommute), United States] 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Novell-at-sy10.net: You're Invited: Linux in Your Enterprise Webinars by Novell] 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Promo Printed Materials Needed 2004-08-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Promo Printed Materials Needed 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] DVD-copying trailblazer shuts its doors 2004-08-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell's SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 Marks Major Step Forward in 2004-08-04 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Trade deal exports DMCA down under (fwd) 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nived_g-at-hotmail.com: Linare Linux Professional Edition] 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting 2004-08-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] ls weirdness 2004-08-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Yoper - The Fastest Linux 2004-08-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer 2004-08-03 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Nasty Company 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer 2004-08-02 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Study: Linux may infringe on 283 patents 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open-Xchange Moves to Open Source License 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell to debut server Linux update 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun mulls buying Novell 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Xandros To Roll Out Myriad Servers After Desktop Release 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d! 2004-08-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments 2004-08-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] BIOS Virus? 2004-08-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BIOS Virus? NYLXS are Do'ers and the first step of Doing is Joining! Join NYLXS and make a difference in your community today!