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DATE 2002-11-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2002-11-09
FROM Ruben I Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [DMCA-Activists] Re: (DC 7/17) NY Arena Outreach, 11/3/02 [ruben@mrbrklyn.com]


On 2002.11.09 21:08 Ruben I Safir wrote:

hat's not our pitch.

It's unfocused and not in step with the NY Fair Use
Agenda.

Nor is this an NY Fair Use stratergy or approved activity.


The NY Fair Use action tomoorw is at Brooklyn College and
focused on the results of the Congressmnal Hearing and Contacts
made in Washington earlier in the year.

This IS the current NY Fair Use Write up for the P2P
Action, in which Congressman Coble asked at the end of the
Hearing:

"Can someone tell me why all this P2P is not Larcony?"

Trusted Computing - the beginning of the end of Freedom

The Associated Press Article run throughout the nation on
Tuesday, November 5th, 2002 on Digital Rights Management
and "Trusted Computing" made several factual errors. It showed
such poor research on the part of the reporter, Matthew Fordhahl,
that he should be released from his position.

Digital Rights Management and "Trusted Computing" can only be
described by honest people has wiretapping and unlawful breaking
and entering. It does nothing to allow for secure computing and
no evidence in the article is presented to justify this quote from
the article:

"Trustworthiness would be achieved by giving users two choices: trusted
and untrusted. On a computer running in untrusted mode, information would
be shared just as it has been for the last 20 years. It's also vulnerable to
attack.

The trusted realm, however, would be immune from such attack. Data and memory
would be held by a chip that lets in only trusted software"

Anyone with at least marginal understanding of computers would be flaberguasted
at the incredible stupidity of this argument. Every computing professional on
the planet outside of Redmond Washington knows that the security issues which
have plagued the PC platform for the last 20 years has been directly due to the
poor implementation and software design of commercial products on the market.
No encryption of memory is going to prevent Outlook from automatically executing
code. This executing of code has been marketed as a 'feature' built directly into the application.

In fact, historically, The Windows operating system has exposed it's entire
OS through public access channels which included the ISS Internet Web Server,
the Exchange Mail Server, and the entire Microsoft Office Suite. Hell, a few
years ago you could remove the entire Windows hard drive by simply viewing a
web site.

There is no need for a digital 'agent man' in you PC in order to
prevent secure private transactions. Publicly available cryptography is
currently readily available through GPG, VPN and IPSec, also known as freeSWan,
and we have encrypted hard drives for laptops. The major commercial vendors
have dragged their feet at making these things available, despite their
being free and available to the public for a decade.

So what then is the purpose to putting a "secret agent man" chip in every
PC. The purpose, and the only purpose, is to spy on you and to take your
property from you. Digital Rights Management is theft. It steals from the
public. It spies on you, it records your every activity, it exposes your
home and business to risk. It's about marketing through control, and
wiretapping. The public has be become more alert about these con games
designed to systematically end private ownership of information and the means
to store it, copy it and manipulate the information we own. The "Trusted
Computing" idea is nothing less than Stalinistic. In fact, Stalin would have
LOVED to been able to have a 'Trusted' media for his program of forced
coercion, propaganda and social control.

So who is culprit in this drive to take control of all the digital information
systems on the planet. None other than our good friend Jack Valelnti of the
MPAA. This is the same Jack Valenti who likened the VCR to the Boston
Strangler, and the same MPAA which has lost multiple anti-trust lawsuits and
tried to plant sub-liminal advertising into movies in the 50's and 60's.
According to the MPAA, having a 'secret agent man' in every digital device
will unlock the potential of our computers, presumably by letting us download
videos over the Internet. Jack was reported as saying that if Department of
Commerce wouldn't take the steps needed to prevent 'theft' of their property,
then they would get Congress to do it.

Indeed, we do need Congress to step in and protect personal property, the
personal property being seized by Stalinists like Jack Valenti. It is not
ethical to impose on the people digital systems which have chips which will
spy on us, and lock us out of our own information. Having a 'Secret Agent
Man' spyware chip in a PC is the same as quartering an agent of the government
in your home, to monitor everything you type, rip and watch.

The proposed systems will force everyone to use 'trusted' systems. The
reasons for this is obvious. Nobody can live in a vacuum. The public is the
first stakeholder in the access and control of information, even when that
information, like most information, is under copyright. The public will be
forced to use the snoop chips in order to read the newspaper, to listen to the
radio, to watch news footage, and to get a basic education. Since all
information published in the 20th Century is under strict copyright, we will
have no choice but to allow ourselves to be snooped on and spied on. And we
will be inhibited from participating as free people in a society where the
communication methods are increasingly digital.

Just as the public needed to be protected from wiretapping by the telephone
companies, the public now needs similar protection for their digital devices.
Doing otherwise is inhibiting competition in the market, and political
discourse. If we are to have any political rights in the future, then we need
to first be secure in our homes, and businesses. DRM is theft, and it is an
evasion of property. We must retain the right to use information without any
form of prior restraint. Without this ability, we become second class
citizens at the mercy of others.



The other write up is on http://fairuse.nylxs.com

It's the OFFICIAL and only authoirized venue for NY Fair Use activity. Since I own the NY Fair Use Logo and the Copyright of
most it' materials, consider this an official notice to to stop mimicking the group.


Who Owns That Downloaded File Anyway?

US CONSTITUTION:


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Article 1:


The Congress shall have power to ... promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;


We are the Stakeholders


It's more than a slogan. It's a fact, and one which the public demands Congress to recognize. There it is. The rights of every individual citizen, clearly stated in the US Constitution in English as plain to understand today as it was when it was written over 200 years ago. Individuals are guaranteed to right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects. This is absolute and the foundation of Freedom. We can not have a free people if we are subject to inspection, wiretapping, bullying and preemptive control of our digital communication. We can not tolerate this any more than we can tolerate wiretapping of our phone lines, spying on our private letters, or burning of our books. It doesn't matter if the public chooses to share music files or movies on a massive scale, individual to individual. All that matters is that we are protected from corporations and the government from doing so.


This summer the Music, Software and Movie Industry has pressed both the executive branch and the legislative branches of our government to allow spying, preemptive filtering, and commandeering of personal property in order to prevent the common distribution of information which is protected by copyright. Anyone who reads the plain meaning of the constitution can clearly see that these copyrighted articles are owned by the public. Congress is only authorized to give limited rights to creators of works in order to promote the publication of more on them. And then, only if they are useful. We fully demand protection from those who scam the public, and steal from us our cultural heritiage.


Who owns copyrighted works? It is the public. Tomorrow Congress can end all copyright protections, and then there is none. But Congress can never pass a law which ends our ownership of our papers, books and property. We demand the same protection to share information on our hard drives, on CD's, Vinyl, Tape and paper that is afforded used books.


On September 26th, 2002, in the House Sub-Committee on Intellectual Property, while reviewing HR 5211, Congressman Berman publically announced that nobody is talking about preventing the sharing of a few files between individuals. Evidently, Congressman Howard Berman seems to be misinformed. The Recording Industry Association of America clearly says that they disagree. Their statements on http://www.soundbyting.com/html/copyright_101/music_copyright.html clearly states:


?So the only LEGAL way to reproduce a piece of recorded music -- uploading, downloading, copying from a CD, whatever - is to get permission from the owners of these different copyrights. It's called, obtaining a license?




This is just wrong. Our homes are not businesses open to in discriminant industrial policies. Our homes are private. We do not license our music and our computers. We purchases them for cash. And we will use them as we choose to, and we will share information with others without prior constraint, and of our own free will. We are not pirates. We are voters, and WE ARE THE STAKEHOLDERS.


In our private lives, we will share what we choose to, we will educate as we see fit, and we will build libraries for public access and to help educate and provide for our children and the poor. And we will not have the public treated as robbers and criminals.


If the RIAA sees a legitimate copyright violation, we are protected from their gross exaggeration of their legal rights by the fourth and fifth amendments in the Bill of Rights. If the legalities of prosecuting individuals under the law is not convenient for the RIAA, we do not authorize a digital police state instead. We will not walk down the path of George Orwell's 1984, where computers are used to control the the thoughts and activities of the population. We will not allow our property to be continued to be described as the property of a Copyright Holders.


Finally, the public is tired of the foot dragging by the Movie and Recording industry in publishing materials electronically. We demand Congress force the Copyright Holders to provide their end of their bargain in Copyright. Congress should move immediately to force the media companies to publish music on-line. Use forced licensing if you must, but get our cultural heritage on the internet. The Music industry, especially, has impeded innovation and job creation because of it's refusal to publish. Nobody has the 'right' not to publish, once they have been given a copyright and made works available. The NY Times reporter, Amy Harmon, wrote on September 23rd:

(http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/23/technology/23MUSI.html?pagewanted=print&position=top)


Concerns over piracy, money or unrelated contract disputes have prompted artists like Madonna and Radiohead to insist that their music not be distributed digitally. And even if the artist and the label are on board, the publisher who represents the writer of a song may not be. Sometimes it takes months to figure out who the publisher is, since there are more than 30,000 of them in the United States and their names are often not included on the CD.


"It's as if Franz Kafka designed this system and employed Rube Goldberg as his architect," said Rob Glaser, the chairman of MusicNet, which is part-owned by his company, RealNetworks, along with AOL Time Warner, Bertelsmann and the EMI Group. "It's full of tripwires."


The most glaring omissions from the services are the entire catalogs of major labels that have so far declined to license to the services backed by their offline competitors. The Warner Music Group, the music division of AOL, and the BMG unit of Bertelsmann have yet to license their music to Pressplay. Likewise, Pressplay's owners, the Universal Music Group of Vivendi Universal and Sony Music Entertainment, have not licensed their recordings to MusicNet. The EMI Group, the smallest of the five major labels, has licensed to both MusicNet and Pressplay. And Listen.com, which has no record labels among its corporate parents, has licenses from all five major labels.



It is time for Congress to step in and make the copyright holders publish on the internet. We don't care is Madonna makes money or not. We care that works are made available to the public. We give publishers narrow, but well defined exclusive rights to profit from by distributing copies of copyrighted work. We give these rights in exchange for making them public. Their 'rights' are not the inalienable rights, such as those defined in the Bill of Rights, but subject to the will of the People. The People demand that they publish, or otherwise strip them of their copyrights all together.



On 2002.11.09 10:42 Seth Johnson wrote:
>
> psypete-at-windstone.darktech.org wrote:
> >
> > mind passing along that pitch in text form? i'd love to
> > pass this along to 2600 meeting across the country (and
> > maybe even world?) who meet in public places for
> > extended periods of time and generally agree with what
> > you're trying to accomplish. if not, is there anything
> > else local 2600 meetings can do to help the cause?
>
>
> Yes. The street pitch is pasted below, and a media blurb is
> below that. You print the pitch out in double spacing and
> use it to let volunteers work off of.
>
> We are also recruiting press outreach campaigners -- people
> who can help spread the word as new developments crop up.
>
> We may be able to visit groups within a day trip range of
> Manhattan and work with them on outreach, set them up with
> tools and some spot training, if they'd like.
>
> Seth
>
>
> New Yorkers For Fair Use
> www.nyfairuse.org
>
> FCC Broadcast Flag Street Outreach Pitch
>
>
> Don't let the FCC outlaw home recording!
>
> Hello, the FCC is planning to enact regulations
> requiring that digital TVs not be allowed to have standard
> analog audio-video jacks by 2006. Hollywood is trying to
> outlaw ownership of home computers, while reserving rights
> to own a computer for themselves.
>
> (Show BPDG flyer, with 4.12 language. Explain that the
> proposed FCC rule will outlaw all fully functional digital
> TV devices for ordinary citizens while creating an exception
> for Hollywood:
>
> > 4.12 Both proposals for section X.2 of the
> > Compliance and Robustness Requirements anticipate
> > that an appropriate provision will be crafted so
> > as to exempt the requirements from applying to
> > products that are specifically intended for
> > professional and broadcast use [e.g., equipment
> > used by studios, TV broadcasters, satellite and
> > cable operators].
>
>
> We can't let that happen! Don't you agree?
>
> New Yorkers for Fair Use is working to stop this policy
> and other developments like it that take away your
> fundamental rights. For example, Microsoft is building
> something called Palladium into their operating system that
> takes control of your computer away from you and lets
> spyware run on your computer in a protected space that you
> can't access.
>
> We focus on information freedom issues that directly
> affect the local community. We recruit and train volunteers
> to help deliver benefits to the community, to do outreach on
> the street and in the media, to help with phone banks, to do
> production that's needed to get the word out about what's
> going on. For example, two major areas that are heavily
> affected by information freedom issues are libraries and
> education. We are beginning a campaign to deliver software
> to our local libraries that lets you access free sources of
> online research and scholarship. By getting PCs donated
> that we can preconfigure with non-proprietary software like
> this, we can save libraries thousands of dollars.
>
> Can you help us?
>
> We need:
>
> Phone Bankers
> Benefits Delivery
> Press Outreach
> Street Outreach
> Production Workers
> Commentators
>
> ----
>
> Media Blurb:
>
>
> Tell the FCC to Serve the Public, Not Hollywood!
>
> Public Comments Needed to Stop the "Broadcast Flag" Proposal
> at the FCC
>
> Please go to the Center for Democracy and Technology's
> Broadcast Flag Action Page and use their form to let the FCC
> know that the public's rights are at stake:
> http://www.nyfairuse.org/action/fcc.flag.xhtml.
>
> What's Going On:
>
> The FCC is considering a proposal that digital televisions
> be required to work only according to the rules set by
> Hollywood, through the use of a "broadcast flag" assigned to
> digital TV broadcasts.
>
> Through the deliberations of a group called the Broadcast
> Protection Discussion Group which assiduously discounted the
> public's rights to use flexible information technology,
> Hollywood and leading technology players have devised a plan
> that would only allow "professionals" to have
> fully-functional devices for processing digital broadcast
> materials.
>
> Hollywood and content producers must not be allowed to
> determine the rights of the public to use flexible
> information technology. The idea of the broadcast flag is to
> implement universal content control and abolish the right of
> free citizens to own effective tools for employing digital
> content in useful ways. The broadcast flag is theft.
>
> In the ongoing fight with old world content industries, the
> most essential rights and interests in a free society are
> those of the public. Free citizens are not mere consumers;
> they are not a separate group from so-called
> "professionals." The stakeholders in a truly just
> information policy in a free society are the public, not
> those who would reserve special rights to control public
> uses of information technology.
>
> Please go to the Center for Democracy and Technology's
> Broadcast Flag Action Page and use their form to let the FCC
> know that the public's rights are at stake:
> http://www.cdt.org/action/copyright/.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DMCA-Activists mailing list
> DMCA-Activists-at-gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca-activists
>
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585
To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html
____________________________
New Yorkers for Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....

  1. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  2. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  3. 2002-11-12 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  4. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Anyone know who this is?
  5. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Linux Scene Calender for Today [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  6. 2002-11-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Network Meeting Tomorrow at Noon
  7. 2002-11-11 From: "Peter C. Norton" <spacey-nylug-at-lenin.nu> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  8. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  9. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  10. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  11. 2002-11-11 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  12. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  13. 2002-11-11 Mordy Ovits <movits-at-bloomberg.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  14. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  15. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Change in Date: Inservice
  16. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: In Service Lecture & Business Network Meeting
  17. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  18. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  19. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  20. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] website builder question
  21. 2002-11-10 Gil Rosado <gil-at-grwebmasters.com> Subject: [hangout] website builder question
  22. 2002-11-10 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  23. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  24. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Queens Members?
  25. 2002-11-10 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  26. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA-Activists] Comments + Broad Overview of Exclusive Rights Approaches
  27. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [fairuse] NY Fair Use: Arena Outreach - Tomorrow at Brooklyn College
  28. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [DMCA-Activists] Re: (DC 7/17) NY Arena Outreach, 11/3/02 [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  29. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Can't Ping Subnet Behind VPN
  30. 2002-11-08 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] November Member Memo
  31. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Demo Tape and review
  32. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  33. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  34. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  35. 2002-11-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  36. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Using Linux with Accounting Packages
  37. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  38. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  39. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next en OS
  40. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior Restration and Digital Media
  41. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  42. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  43. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [rich.goodwin-at-cox.net: [novalug] LinkSys vulnerability!]
  44. 2002-11-07 Jean-Michel Smith <jsmith-at-kcco.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  45. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  46. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  47. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  48. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Marco call me
  49. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  50. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  51. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  52. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  53. 2002-11-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  54. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] laptops
  55. 2002-11-06 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  56. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  57. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  58. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  59. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  60. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  61. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  62. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  63. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  64. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Halloween 7
  65. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] Installfest
  66. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Hmmmm ... Maybe someone can explain this to me...
  67. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Election Results
  68. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Impending disaster for drm fight?
  69. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  70. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux and Small Businesses
  71. 2002-11-06 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Linux (I've seen it all now)
  72. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  73. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Other things
  74. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  75. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] InstallFest Credits
  76. 2002-11-05 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwdanyone?
  77. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] directions needed
  78. 2002-11-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout]
  79. 2002-11-05 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Subject: [hangout]
  80. 2002-11-05 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Anti Freedom Laws and Their Pimps
  81. 2002-11-05 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  82. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  83. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  84. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  85. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  86. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  87. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnomecal and Addressbook
  88. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Ruling and Free Software:E Moglin
  89. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome Board
  90. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  91. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  92. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  93. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  94. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [hangout] gpg]
  95. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  96. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  97. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  98. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  99. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  100. 2002-11-04 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  101. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  102. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  103. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  104. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  105. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  106. 2002-11-04 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  107. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  108. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  109. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  110. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  111. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  112. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  113. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  114. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  115. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  116. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  117. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  118. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  119. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  120. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  121. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [constant-at-indo.net.id: too stupid for Linux?]
  122. 2002-11-04 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  123. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] class rings
  124. 2002-11-04 spam-killer-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] [jgleason-at-nylug.org: [nylug-announce] THE LINUX SOCIETY | November 2002 (fwd)]
  125. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting - Next Monday
  126. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: New Class Schedules Up for December
  127. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Publicity for installfest
  128. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  129. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  130. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  131. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  132. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  133. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  134. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] video for installfest
  135. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  136. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  137. 2002-11-03 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] Press
  138. 2002-11-03 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  139. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Press
  140. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  141. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  142. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jewery
  143. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Why Jews Like Linux Thread
  144. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] INSTALLFEST NYC
  145. 2002-11-03 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  146. 2002-11-03 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Subject: [hangout] DMCA HORROR SHOW
  147. 2002-11-03 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  148. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] gpg
  149. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  150. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  151. 2002-11-02 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  152. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C class by Billy
  153. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] EDIT THE JOURNAL
  154. 2002-11-02 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Letter to the Site Editors, Letter to the Magazine Editors
  155. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Re: Class Schedule
  156. 2002-11-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dd correct for copying an iso image to hard disk?
  157. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  158. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE
  159. 2002-11-01 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] observations
  160. 2002-11-01 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Wireless Keyboards and mouse
  161. 2002-11-01 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  162. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  163. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  164. 2002-11-01 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE-Update
  165. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  166. 2002-11-20 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  167. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  168. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] databases
  169. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jaboutboul-at-speakeasy.net: Re: [nylug-talk] Fwd: LinuxWorld NY 2003 Jan]
  170. 2002-11-20 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Celebrate the arts with me
  171. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  172. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] This Morning's Follow up
  173. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  174. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] More from the DMCA
  175. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  176. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  177. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  178. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  179. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  180. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  181. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  182. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  183. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  184. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux 1 class
  185. 2002-11-20 From: "Adam Kosmin" <adk9001-at-nyp.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: Union-Tribune
  186. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  187. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  188. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  189. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: board meeing
  190. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Networking: Bronx
  191. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  192. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  193. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  194. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  195. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  196. 2002-11-20 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  197. 2002-11-23 Kiryl Hakhovich <administrator-at-bsolution.net> Re[2]: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  198. 2002-11-26 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: Reply RE: [hangout] FSI- Stepping Up the Growth
  199. 2002-11-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx

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