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DATE 2002-11-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2002-11-01
FROM David Sugar
SUBJECT Re: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference

On 1 Nov 2002, Ruben Safir wrote:

>
> On Fri, 2001-11-23 at 14:49, hangout-at-nylxs.com wrote:
> >
> > >>If the objective is to make free software widely accessible and a common
> > >>alternative to proprietary systems,
> >
> > Yes

Calling it an alternative is not I believe correct. All software should
be provided with freedom to use and modify as one sees fit, not as an
option. Saying free software is an alternative or option to proprietary
software implies proprietary software is ethically equivilent. Would one
claim that a one party state without elections is ethically equivillent to
the alternative or option of democratic government?

> > >> the open source/free community has
> > >>to accept help from whatever sources it can.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting help from others, just as
we share code with others, so long as this help doesn't require us to
deminish the freedom we provide to others or for us to promote their
proprietary solutions. Certainly cooperation can and must exist where
there are common goals.

> > Maybe. Giving out code is not the same as helping schools.
> >
> > >>Yes, IBM is a big ugly
> > >>corporation. Yes, if IBM could patent air and bill you for it, it would.
> >
> > That's right. And it's not point to be overlooked or simply brushed aside.
> > Whatever they contribute, fine. This is not a reason to sleep with a Polar
> > Bear.
> >
> >
> > >>This being said, IBM can't beat the GPL (or at least has shown no
> > >>inclination to do so yet)
> >
> > It probibly could if it wanted to, but this is not the focis of this
> > discussion.
> >
> >
> > >> and it has things we lack, specifically money,
> > >>money, and more money.
> >
> > AH
> >
> > Now this is the point I wanted to get to.
> >
> > It's really not true that we don't have money. We have as much money as we
> > care to donate, and spend, as a community. The community DOES have money.
> >
> >
> > Furthermore, and money which is donated to any cause needs to be carefully
> > examined for strings attached. And money is not the same as equiptment.
> > If IBM wanted to donate to NYLXS, for example, 2 million dollars for the
> > purposes of supporting our educational initiative. We would look to make
> > sure it had no strings attached. If it had no strings, we would accept it.

I believe this is a completely correct and valid viewpoint.

> > If they wanted to donate an s390 to NYLXS, they could keep it. We have no
> > use for it without an infalstructure to maintain it.
> >
> > If they donate VM's, as they are, I currenty have no use for that either,
> > and it completely is useless to helping the free software agenda in the
> > schools. If they want to donate an actually s390, then that MIGHT be
> > useful, but not likely. What would be more useful would be
> > an open check. If they are interested in promoting FS in the schools, let
> > them cut a damn check so the Clubs and Faculty can buy what they need to
> > use FS as they see fit in the school. Second best is to donate a few PC's
> > and a PC server, with other equiptment (hubs etc), if they wanted to. If
> > they can help support new connectivity, that would also be good.
> >
> >
> > Next best would be for them to help with faculty and tech support. Let
> > them get their people in there on IMB time and money, 2x a week.
> >
> > But forcing a marketing solution on them is completely NOT of any use, and
> > can be harmful, period...regardless of the money involved.
> >
> >
> > There is also the danger of becoming too dependent of IBM. That is a
> > disaster. The NY Linux Scene needs to develope the means to handle
> > community needs on it's own without being dependent on IBM. We, as a
> > community, DO have the money, time, and VOTES necessary to do the needed
> > outreach and devlepment. What we don't have is focus and organization.
> > And gawking at IBM is not helping.
> >
> >
> > >> I don't know the same teachers you
> > >>know, but the ones I have met are not teachers because of an abiding
> > >>passion for technology--they want to teach kids, they need computers to
> > >>do it,
> >
> > That's a good question. Really they don't need computers to teach kids.
> > They need computers to teach kids about computers. In any event, this is
> > where the COMMUNITY needs to get off it's duff and work. This is just
> > plain old fashion, roll up your sleaves, and contribute to your community
> > work. We have the talent to get into this school, and others, and to
> > donate a few hurs a week to make the schools a better place for learning,
> > and teaching of the power of freedom and free software. In fact, we can
> > probibly put more people into the field than IBM. Let IBM support US in
> > our lead to help the school, if they choose to help at all.
> >
> > >> and they really don't care whose OS or hardware they use as long
> > >>as they get the machines in their classrooms, running, and with the
> > >>training and support they need to make those computers go.
> >
> > And that, my friend, is a fatal misconception and huge problem. They DON'T
> > want to just get computers into the school. They want to expand their kids
> > horizons. Many object to computers in the schools at all, not to mention
> > calculators. We need to show how FS expands on the basic ability to teach
> > children, not how to use word processors, but how to THINK, DEDUCE, CREATE,
> > and LEARN. We need to show how this huge library of computing software
> > teaches instruction, and trains the mind to problem solve and communicate.
> > THAT is the power of free software in the school system. It expands the
> > oppurtunity of child to develop real world skills which they will use every
> > day of their life, even, G-D forbid, if one day they need to take a job
> > using Microsoft's yet unmamed Word Processor.
> >
> > >>
> > >>Last week Microsoft announced a settlement agreement that gives schools
> > >>free computers, and also provides $90 million in teacher training and
> > >>$160 million in technical support. While it's easy to question the
> > >>altruism of these settlement terms,
> >
> >
> > It's not the altruism in question. If you read the articles by the
> > Attorneys rejecting the offer, they're rejecting it on grounds that the
> > introduction of MORE MS products into the schools is harmful to the kids!!
> >
> > And they're RIGHT.
> >
> > >>Why would any school
> > >>board or school administrator turn up the opportunity to get free (as in
> > >>beer) new computers, software, training, and support in favor of a bunch
> > >>of hobbyists nattering about Free (as in speech) software, bearing a
> > >>hodgepodge of old machines they sorta cobbled together from old parts
> > >>dug out of the basement, and training and support that they can provide
> > >>kinda on their off hours?
> >
> >
> > Because this is not the real choice. The real choice is, why would they
> > turn down free computers and software to their schools which restrict their
> > teaching ability and obstruct their goals. Instead they can have support
> > of an association of expert computer professionals from the community.
> > This is especially true in light of the fact that what the teachers really
> > would prefer is more text books, teaching space and room. Screw the
> > computers. They're not on the SAT's.
> >
> > >>The only way we're
> > >>going to be able to do have a serious presence in the classroom is by
> > >>aligning ourselves with the help and support of corporate giants
> >
> > IMO, this is completely not true. Then were just trading one exploitative
> > solution for another dressed up all nicely in the flag of the GPL. Only
> > the community can make a difference. IBM is irrelavent in this regard
> > accept in it's support of the local computing professionsals in the local
> > FS movement who are working to make it happen.
> >
> >
> > Really, the best thing IBM can do is hire more local Free Software people
> > so that these people can better support their own damn school. They do
> > have educational resources and programs, not to mention other areas of
> > employment, which can put more FS people to work.
> >
> > let em hire Jay...
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> >
> > --
> > __________________________
> >
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > __________________________
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn
> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
> > articles from around the net
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/annie.mp3 - Armed and Dangerous....
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752
> >
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________
> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
>

____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....

  1. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  2. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  3. 2002-11-12 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  4. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Anyone know who this is?
  5. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Linux Scene Calender for Today [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  6. 2002-11-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Network Meeting Tomorrow at Noon
  7. 2002-11-11 From: "Peter C. Norton" <spacey-nylug-at-lenin.nu> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  8. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  9. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  10. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  11. 2002-11-11 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  12. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  13. 2002-11-11 Mordy Ovits <movits-at-bloomberg.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  14. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  15. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Change in Date: Inservice
  16. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: In Service Lecture & Business Network Meeting
  17. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  18. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  19. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  20. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] website builder question
  21. 2002-11-10 Gil Rosado <gil-at-grwebmasters.com> Subject: [hangout] website builder question
  22. 2002-11-10 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  23. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  24. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Queens Members?
  25. 2002-11-10 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  26. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA-Activists] Comments + Broad Overview of Exclusive Rights Approaches
  27. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [fairuse] NY Fair Use: Arena Outreach - Tomorrow at Brooklyn College
  28. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [DMCA-Activists] Re: (DC 7/17) NY Arena Outreach, 11/3/02 [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  29. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Can't Ping Subnet Behind VPN
  30. 2002-11-08 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] November Member Memo
  31. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Demo Tape and review
  32. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  33. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  34. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  35. 2002-11-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  36. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Using Linux with Accounting Packages
  37. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  38. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  39. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next en OS
  40. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior Restration and Digital Media
  41. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  42. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  43. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [rich.goodwin-at-cox.net: [novalug] LinkSys vulnerability!]
  44. 2002-11-07 Jean-Michel Smith <jsmith-at-kcco.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  45. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  46. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  47. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  48. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Marco call me
  49. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  50. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  51. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  52. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  53. 2002-11-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  54. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] laptops
  55. 2002-11-06 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  56. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  57. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  58. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  59. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  60. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  61. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  62. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  63. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  64. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Halloween 7
  65. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] Installfest
  66. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Hmmmm ... Maybe someone can explain this to me...
  67. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Election Results
  68. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Impending disaster for drm fight?
  69. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  70. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux and Small Businesses
  71. 2002-11-06 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Linux (I've seen it all now)
  72. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  73. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Other things
  74. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  75. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] InstallFest Credits
  76. 2002-11-05 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwdanyone?
  77. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] directions needed
  78. 2002-11-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout]
  79. 2002-11-05 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Subject: [hangout]
  80. 2002-11-05 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Anti Freedom Laws and Their Pimps
  81. 2002-11-05 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  82. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  83. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  84. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  85. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  86. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  87. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnomecal and Addressbook
  88. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Ruling and Free Software:E Moglin
  89. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome Board
  90. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  91. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  92. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  93. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  94. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [hangout] gpg]
  95. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  96. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  97. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  98. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  99. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  100. 2002-11-04 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  101. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  102. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  103. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  104. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  105. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  106. 2002-11-04 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  107. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  108. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  109. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  110. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  111. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  112. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  113. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  114. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  115. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  116. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  117. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  118. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  119. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  120. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  121. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [constant-at-indo.net.id: too stupid for Linux?]
  122. 2002-11-04 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  123. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] class rings
  124. 2002-11-04 spam-killer-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] [jgleason-at-nylug.org: [nylug-announce] THE LINUX SOCIETY | November 2002 (fwd)]
  125. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting - Next Monday
  126. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: New Class Schedules Up for December
  127. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Publicity for installfest
  128. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  129. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  130. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  131. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  132. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  133. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  134. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] video for installfest
  135. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  136. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  137. 2002-11-03 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] Press
  138. 2002-11-03 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  139. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Press
  140. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  141. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  142. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jewery
  143. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Why Jews Like Linux Thread
  144. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] INSTALLFEST NYC
  145. 2002-11-03 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  146. 2002-11-03 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Subject: [hangout] DMCA HORROR SHOW
  147. 2002-11-03 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  148. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] gpg
  149. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  150. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  151. 2002-11-02 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  152. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C class by Billy
  153. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] EDIT THE JOURNAL
  154. 2002-11-02 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Letter to the Site Editors, Letter to the Magazine Editors
  155. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Re: Class Schedule
  156. 2002-11-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dd correct for copying an iso image to hard disk?
  157. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  158. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE
  159. 2002-11-01 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] observations
  160. 2002-11-01 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Wireless Keyboards and mouse
  161. 2002-11-01 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  162. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  163. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  164. 2002-11-01 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE-Update
  165. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  166. 2002-11-20 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  167. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  168. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] databases
  169. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jaboutboul-at-speakeasy.net: Re: [nylug-talk] Fwd: LinuxWorld NY 2003 Jan]
  170. 2002-11-20 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Celebrate the arts with me
  171. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  172. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] This Morning's Follow up
  173. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  174. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] More from the DMCA
  175. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  176. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  177. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  178. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  179. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  180. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  181. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  182. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  183. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  184. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux 1 class
  185. 2002-11-20 From: "Adam Kosmin" <adk9001-at-nyp.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: Union-Tribune
  186. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  187. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  188. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  189. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: board meeing
  190. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Networking: Bronx
  191. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  192. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  193. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  194. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  195. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  196. 2002-11-20 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  197. 2002-11-23 Kiryl Hakhovich <administrator-at-bsolution.net> Re[2]: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  198. 2002-11-26 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: Reply RE: [hangout] FSI- Stepping Up the Growth
  199. 2002-11-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx

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