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Key: archive Value: 2002-11-01

Key: id Value: 497993

MESSAGE
DATE 2002-11-07
FROM Ruben I Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
From owner-hangout-desteny-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Nov 7 21:04:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:04:08 -0500
From: Ruben I Safir
To: fairuse-at-nylxs.com, nylug-talk-at-nylug.org
Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
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NY Fair Use Action at Brooklyn College Sunday

See http://fairuse.nylxs.com


Letter to the Editor: NY SUN

Trusted Computing - the beginning of the end of Freedom

The Associated Press Article run throughout the nation on
Tuesday, November 5th, 2002 on Digital Rights Management
and "Trusted Computing" made several factual errors. It showed
such poor research on the part of the reporter, Matthew Fordhahl,
that he should be released from his position.

Digital Rights Management and "Trusted Computing" can only be
described by honest people has wiretapping and unlawful breaking
and entering. It does nothing to allow for secure computing and
no evidence in the article is presented to justify this quote from
the article:

"Trustworthiness would be achieved by giving users two choices: trusted
and untrusted. On a computer running in untrusted mode, information would
be shared just as it has been for the last 20 years. It's also vulnerable to
attack.

The trusted realm, however, would be immune from such attack. Data and memory
would be held by a chip that lets in only trusted software"

Anyone with at least marginal understanding of computers would be flaberguasted
at the incredible stupidity of this argument. Every computing professional on
the planet outside of Redmond Washington knows that the security issues which
have plagued the PC platform for the last 20 years has been directly due to the
poor implementation and software design of commercial products on the market.
No encryption of memory is going to prevent Outlook from automatically executing
code. This executing of code has been marketed as a 'feature' built directly into the application.

In fact, historically, The Windows operating system has exposed it's entire
OS through public access channels which included the ISS Internet Web Server,
the Exchange Mail Server, and the entire Microsoft Office Suite. Hell, a few
years ago you could remove the entire Windows hard drive by simply viewing a
web site.

There is no need for a digital 'agent man' in you PC in order to
prevent secure private transactions. Publicly available cryptography is
currently readily available through GPG, VPN and IPSec, also known as freeSWan,
and we have encrypted hard drives for laptops. The major commercial vendors
have dragged their feet at making these things available, despite their
being free and available to the public for a decade.

So what then is the purpose to putting a "secret agent man" chip in every
PC. The purpose, and the only purpose, is to spy on you and to take your
property from you. Digital Rights Management is theft. It steals from the
public. It spies on you, it records your every activity, it exposes your
home and business to risk. It's about marketing through control, and
wiretapping. The public has be become more alert about these con games
designed to systematically end private ownership of information and the means
to store it, copy it and manipulate the information we own. The "Trusted
Computing" idea is nothing less than Stalinistic. In fact, Stalin would have
LOVED to been able to have a 'Trusted' media for his program of forced
coercion, propaganda and social control.

So who is culprit in this drive to take control of all the digital information
systems on the planet. None other than our good friend Jack Valelnti of the
MPAA. This is the same Jack Valenti who likened the VCR to the Boston
Strangler, and the same MPAA which has lost multiple anti-trust lawsuits and
tried to plant sub-liminal advertising into movies in the 50's and 60's.
According to the MPAA, having a 'secret agent man' in every digital device
will unlock the potential of our computers, presumably by letting us download
videos over the Internet. Jack was reported as saying that if Department of
Commerce wouldn't take the steps needed to prevent 'theft' of their property,
then they would get Congress to do it.

Indeed, we do need Congress to step in and protect personal property, the
personal property being seized by Stalinists like Jack Valenti. It is not
ethical to impose on the people digital systems which have chips which will
spy on us, and lock us out of our own information. Having a 'Secret Agent
Man' spyware chip in a PC is the same as quartering an agent of the government
in your home, to monitor everything you type, rip and watch.

The proposed systems will force everyone to use 'trusted' systems. The
reasons for this is obvious. Nobody can live in a vacuum. The public is the
first stakeholder in the access and control of information, even when that
information, like most information, is under copyright. The public will be
forced to use the snoop chips in order to read the newspaper, to listen to the
radio, to watch news footage, and to get a basic education. Since all
information published in the 20th Century is under strict copyright, we will
have no choice but to allow ourselves to be snooped on and spied on. And we
will be inhibited from participating as free people in a society where the
communication methods are increasingly digital.

Just as the public needed to be protected from wiretapping by the telephone
companies, the public now needs similar protection for their digital devices.
Doing otherwise is inhibiting competition in the market, and political
discourse. If we are to have any political rights in the future, then we need
to first be secure in our homes, and businesses. DRM is theft, and it is an
evasion of property. We must retain the right to use information without any
form of prior restraint. Without this ability, we become second class
citizens at the mercy of others.


--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....

  1. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  2. 2002-11-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dd correct for copying an iso image to hard disk?
  3. 2002-11-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE
  4. 2002-11-01 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] error message under SUSE-Update
  5. 2002-11-01 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  6. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  7. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Apache Question - Stupid Question for Today
  8. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM and Linux - For Future Reference
  9. 2002-11-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Membership Night Out? It could work...
  10. 2002-11-01 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] observations
  11. 2002-11-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Re: Class Schedule
  12. 2002-11-01 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Wireless Keyboards and mouse
  13. 2002-11-02 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  14. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C class by Billy
  15. 2002-11-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] EDIT THE JOURNAL
  16. 2002-11-02 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Letter to the Site Editors, Letter to the Magazine Editors
  17. 2002-11-03 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  18. 2002-11-03 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  19. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  20. 2002-11-03 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] Press
  21. 2002-11-03 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  22. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  23. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  24. 2002-11-03 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Subject: [hangout] DMCA HORROR SHOW
  25. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] gpg
  26. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] INSTALLFEST NYC
  27. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jewery
  28. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  29. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Press
  30. 2002-11-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Why Jews Like Linux Thread
  31. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwd anyone?
  32. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  33. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  34. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  35. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  36. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  37. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  38. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C class by Billy
  39. 2002-11-04 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  40. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co
  41. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  42. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  43. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  44. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  45. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  46. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  47. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  48. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  49. 2002-11-04 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  50. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  51. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  52. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  53. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  54. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  55. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  56. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  57. 2002-11-04 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] gpg
  58. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gpg
  59. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  60. 2002-11-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  61. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  62. 2002-11-04 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  63. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  64. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jewery
  65. 2002-11-04 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Nvideo Cards
  66. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting - Next Monday
  67. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] class rings
  68. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: New Class Schedules Up for December
  69. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome Board
  70. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnomecal and Addressbook
  71. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Gnu/Linux maintainers protecting MPAA, Jack Valent & co.
  72. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Interesting Developments
  73. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Ruling and Free Software:E Moglin
  74. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  75. 2002-11-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair use Meeting
  76. 2002-11-04 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] Publicity for installfest
  77. 2002-11-04 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] video for installfest
  78. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [constant-at-indo.net.id: too stupid for Linux?]
  79. 2002-11-04 spam-killer-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] [jgleason-at-nylug.org: [nylug-announce] THE LINUX SOCIETY | November 2002 (fwd)]
  80. 2002-11-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [hangout] gpg]
  81. 2002-11-05 From: "gil rosado" <gr.music-at-verizon.net> Re: Fw: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] shell parser for /etc/passwdanyone?
  82. 2002-11-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout]
  83. 2002-11-05 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] gpg
  84. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  85. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  86. 2002-11-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] gpg
  87. 2002-11-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] gpg
  88. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Suse 8.0 disks for installfest
  89. 2002-11-05 Joe Grastara <jfg205-at-nyu.edu> Subject: [hangout]
  90. 2002-11-05 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Anti Freedom Laws and Their Pimps
  91. 2002-11-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] directions needed
  92. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  93. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Impending disaster for drm fight?
  94. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  95. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  96. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  97. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  98. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfest
  99. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  100. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  101. 2002-11-06 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  102. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Election Results
  103. 2002-11-06 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  104. 2002-11-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  105. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux and Small Businesses
  106. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Hmmmm ... Maybe someone can explain this to me...
  107. 2002-11-06 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] Installfest
  108. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] InstallFest Credits
  109. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] laptops
  110. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] more TCO ammo for OSS
  111. 2002-11-06 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Halloween 7
  112. 2002-11-06 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Linux (I've seen it all now)
  113. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Other things
  114. 2002-11-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Stake Holder Buttons
  115. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: Confirmation - LinuxWorld NY'03 Conference & Expo
  116. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Marco call me
  117. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next en OS
  118. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  119. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  120. 2002-11-07 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  121. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  122. 2002-11-07 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] next gen OS
  123. 2002-11-07 Jean-Michel Smith <jsmith-at-kcco.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  124. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  125. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  126. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior restraint of Digital Use
  127. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Prior Restration and Digital Media
  128. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA-Activists] MSNBC / AP on "Trusted Computing"
  129. 2002-11-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Using Linux with Accounting Packages
  130. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] [Fwd: FC: Consumer Alert on digital technology, consumers, copyright]
  131. 2002-11-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [rich.goodwin-at-cox.net: [novalug] LinkSys vulnerability!]
  132. 2002-11-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fundraise Online: November 14 Workshop in NYC
  133. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  134. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  135. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Demo Tape and review
  136. 2002-11-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mechanized Army
  137. 2002-11-08 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] November Member Memo
  138. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Can't Ping Subnet Behind VPN
  139. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [DMCA-Activists] Re: (DC 7/17) NY Arena Outreach, 11/3/02 [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  140. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA-Activists] Comments + Broad Overview of Exclusive Rights Approaches
  141. 2002-11-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [fairuse] NY Fair Use: Arena Outreach - Tomorrow at Brooklyn College
  142. 2002-11-10 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  143. 2002-11-10 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  144. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  145. 2002-11-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Queens Members?
  146. 2002-11-10 Gil Rosado <gil-at-grwebmasters.com> Subject: [hangout] website builder question
  147. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  148. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] board of directorsnext en OS
  149. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  150. 2002-11-11 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  151. 2002-11-11 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] website builder question
  152. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] website builder question
  153. 2002-11-11 vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  154. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Change in Date: Inservice
  155. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Classes Flyers and PR
  156. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: In Service Lecture & Business Network Meeting
  157. 2002-11-11 From: "Peter C. Norton" <spacey-nylug-at-lenin.nu> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  158. 2002-11-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  159. 2002-11-11 Mordy Ovits <movits-at-bloomberg.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  160. 2002-11-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] Change in Date: Inservice
  161. 2002-11-12 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] a few questions on the Journal
  162. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Anyone know who this is?
  163. 2002-11-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Network Meeting Tomorrow at Noon
  164. 2002-11-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Linux Scene Calender for Today [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  165. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  166. 2002-11-20 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fw: Windows Refund Day II
  167. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  168. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  169. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  170. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: board meeing
  171. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  172. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  173. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  174. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  175. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: promotion
  176. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  177. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  178. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  179. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  180. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  181. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  182. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  183. 2002-11-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  184. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  185. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Networking: Bronx
  186. 2002-11-20 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Celebrate the arts with me
  187. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux 1 class
  188. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] More from the DMCA
  189. 2002-11-20 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> Subject: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  190. 2002-11-20 From: "Adam Kosmin" <adk9001-at-nyp.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: Union-Tribune
  191. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] Re: Windows Refund Day II
  192. 2002-11-20 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  193. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] databases
  194. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] This Morning's Follow up
  195. 2002-11-20 akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] WRDII: scope and planning
  196. 2002-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jaboutboul-at-speakeasy.net: Re: [nylug-talk] Fwd: LinuxWorld NY 2003 Jan]
  197. 2002-11-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [ Free Software Chamber of Commerce ] Business Networking: Bronx
  198. 2002-11-23 Kiryl Hakhovich <administrator-at-bsolution.net> Re[2]: [hangout] OSS and K-12 Education Analysis
  199. 2002-11-26 marco <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: Reply RE: [hangout] FSI- Stepping Up the Growth

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