|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [firstname.lastname@example.org: Re: [Dng] fraud warning]
|From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Mon Dec 1 14:37:53 2014
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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 14:18:00 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [mfidelman-at-meetinghouse.net: Re: [Dng] fraud warning]
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----- Forwarded message from Miles Fidelman -----
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 13:45:04 -0500
From: Miles Fidelman
To: Ruben Safir
Subject: Re: [Dng] fraud warning
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/33.0 SeaMonkey/2.30
Oh, trust me, I've seen LOTS of projects go wrong - some out of
inexperience, some out of incompetence, some out of sheer bad luck,
and some out of intentional perfidy. I'm not ready to give up on this
You, on the other hand, are simply throwing rocks - not contributing
in any meaningful way. We're all adults here, we don't need you to
vent all over the ozone. Please go away and do something useful.
Ruben Safir wrote:
> Or maybe I've had more experience at seeing things like this go bad than
> you have.
> You can not start a project of this magnitude without formal
> introductions, honesty and integrity.
> None of that is happening with the "Old Unix Admins"
> The first priority of business needs to get the house in order.
> This already has all the earmarks of endeavor that at best will fail and
> at worst, just be an outright fraud.
> 1) You have people fluffying over hard facts with misleading statements.
> 2) You have a failure to identify the proponents and organizers upfront.
> 3) You have theological pandering not related to the expressed purpose of
> the supposed project being bantered about.
> 4) You also have a failure of basic consensus as to the stated goals of the
> 5) and you have purposefully misleading campaign which misidentifies the
> organizers as "Old Time Unix Admins"
> What is needed here is sunlight, not deceptions. It starts with "Hi,
> I'm Denis Jaromil Roio. I Own and Run Dyne.org and I want to help fork
> Debian without systemd. Here is what I propose. Here is what I can do.
> Here is how I hope to organize this. Here is how you contact me! And
> if you send me Money, I will use it like THIS and here is how i can be
> found toi be accountable.
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 01:24:06PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> Ruben Safir wrote:
>>> On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 07:00:10PM +0100, Jaromil wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, e1 wrote:
>>>>> How you can hide you personal information if you have even a
>>>>> Wikipedia page about you and a dozen of books?
>>>> and that is probably the first thing that will get vandalized in the
>>>> next days :^) personal attacks seem to be a constant pattern when
>>>> dealing with systemd, from both factions. This is very sad and I think.
>>> Oh good.
>>> Now, who is Dyne.org?
>>> How is it governed?
>>> Who are you and are you in charge of dyne.org?
>>> How are you going to account for monies collected for a fork of debian?
>>> How is Devuan going to be organization? Who is its project leader?
>>> What is its structure?
>>> I'm still awaiting these most basic questions, starting with who are
>>> YOU, and what is your relationship to Dyne who is hosting this list and
>>> spearheading this project and soliciting money from the public?
>>> This is so simple.
>>> Its like, Hi, I'm Richard Stallman and I founded the FSF
>>> Hi, I'm Linus Tovalds and I oversea the Linux Kernal and Here I am and
>>> my contact information.
>>> In my near 20 years of Free Software involvement I have NEVER seen such
>>> secrecary and nonsense by ANYONE who was solitiing money or work for any
>> A bunch of us have raised similar questions, and in my case, not
>> completely politely - but you, sir, are going off the deep end.
>> Personally, I'm waiting and seeing. Certainly not giving any money,
>> and not contributing any resources (though I have contributed
>> "design goals" and "design review" of a sort). So far, I'll give
>> these folks the benefit of the doubt and see if any of the promised
>> early code and infrastructure materializes. Then I'll worry about
>> names, detailed c.v.s, and organizing documents.
>> If you have no patience, or are not satisfied with the answers - how
>> about starting your own fork, or howling at the moon, or something -
>> but please stop polluting the list.
>> Miles Fidelman
>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
>> Dng mailing list
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
----- End forwarded message -----
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
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Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013