|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Re: [email@example.com: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Devuan Fork and Fraud]
|From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Mon Dec 22 17:18:57 2014
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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 17:18:54 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
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CC: Jaromil , rms-at-gnu.org, dyfet-at-mykolab.com,
Subject: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Devuan Fork and Fraud]
References: <20141221005305.GB29740-at-panix.com> <20141221075831.GA9579-at-panix.com> <20141221102208.GA10792-at-panix.com> <5497EC12.7050907-at-panix.com> <20141222103314.GA3361-at-fork> <20141222124827.GA20666-at-panix.com>
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On 12/22/2014 02:27 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> You did it kiddo and you did not publically or privately try to rein in the attack that
>> you initiated,
>> Hiding behind anonomoity doesn't make everyone stupid
The posting went up the same day Wikipedia pulled Denis's article. And the discussion of the Wikipedia article involved an echo. The complaint itself states first hand knowledge of what Denis is thinking.
The fact is, this is someone close to him, and not a random reader.
He also has and even on the mailing list, a group of people who surround him who guard him, like what you find in a cult.
Quoting the threat:
Ruben Safir seeks to Devuan terminated by scam page on your donations
Serious accusation but true. Ruben Safir, who promoted the deletion of Jaromil from Wikipedia and is doing so with more articles, is conducting this very personal and trying donations via Stripe to Devuan be blocked denouncing it's a scam page.
This would be internal knowledge of what Roio is thinking since only he would know anything about donations via Stripe, which is a financial organization I'd never heard of.
Ruben got tired, so as once I got on the bus that left several pages offline, it came time you open your anus.
This guy who claims to be developer of opensuse or tries to be, the same Ruben Safir who asked deleting the wikipedia article Jaromil, is making donations via Stripe and canceling them,
This is an absurd accusation that could have only been conjured up in a private conversation between Denis and a compatriot.
They are making the claim that they have direct inside knowledge that would only be known by Denis.
So they are being incited by Denis? Don't believe it? Read what was actually written on the Wikipedia deletion page.
Please consider this deletion has been filed (by unregistered IP users)
in coincidence with personal attacks, public threats and insults I have
received by exposing myself as co-leader of the Devuan project, a fork
of Debian to defend the GNU/Linux distribution from the systemd
avalanche, a much debated topic flaming the open source communities.
Up until this point their had been NO personal attacks on this guy whatsoever, and this message exposes the lie that he was cooking up. He wasn't receiving any threats or insults because he by exposing his self for leading Devuan. He was denying any leadership role until he was forced to step forward and take responsibility. After that, nobody cared about him, let alone bothered him. It was his choice to step this up.
> Ruben, apologies if you already detailed this somewhere, but what is
> your reason for asserting that author 'SynFlag' of cited Web page
> is, specifically, Denis 'Jaromil' Roio - or even is someone acting at
> Roio's personal behest?
You know Rick, I like this methodology of discourse. I'm going to borrow this from you one day.
BTW - I have no evidence that Denis directly wrote that page. The evidence is that he incited others to do so by sharing with them if personal view of events and actions which have nothing to do with what I said or did. Evidently, things are happening around him, or so he thinks anyway, including some financial transactions, that could have only had come from intimate knowledge that would be otherwise private to him.
Then he used the mailing list for personal incitement. Should I start quoting them:
"meanwhile he is managing to delete all mentions of my past work from wikipedia and
spread insults and defamations while keeps alling this a fraud.
This is once again something other educated critics of systemd have faced in the past.
Really, who is deleting something from Wikipedia? He was expecting He work is well represented on Wikipedia, and his name is pseudonym redirects right to it. Wikipedia just decided to remove his glamour page.
*Date: *2014-12-08 12:29 -500
*Subject: *Re: [Dng] fraud warning
On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Jaromil wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, e1 wrote:
> > How you can hide you personal information if you have even a
> > Wikipedia page about you and a dozen of books?
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaromil
> and that is probably the first thing that will get vandalized in the
> next days :^) personal attacks seem to be a constant pattern when
> dealing with systemd, from both factions. This is very sad and I
Just noting it here, since this community is the only one that can
witness the temporal connection between the personal attacks I've
received by trolls here and this prompt deletion request on WL
I'm not calling for defense here, rather would like to state that the
systemd crowd has been leading their aggressions with even more personal
attacks than what it is said to be about us and more in general the
people opposing the systemd avalanche.
Thanks everyone for keeping this an interesting place for exchanges and
debates, even when dissenting among each other we can be mature and keep
far from personal wars targeting people for doing what they love to do
in their life.
Dealing with these guys is like dealing with Alice in wonderland. if I
had to guess, and this is a shot in the dark, this is the idiot who probably
wrote the attack article
*Date: *2014-12-01 12:36 -500
*To: *Ruben Safir
*Subject: *Re: [Dng] fraud warning
> Il giorno 01/dic/2014, alle ore 18:32, Ruben Safir ha
>> Why you can’t?
>> Gianluca Zamagni
> No - it isn't actually, it is being covered up.
> I want to see the name address and contact information for “Dyne.org"/
How you can hide you personal information if you have even a Wikipedia
page about you and a dozen of books?
This is not enough probably, right? Now you will start acting like this
page is made from one of us, right? LOL
I’m start thinking that you are not able to use a search engine and
discern information :
I'm asking for information on dyne.org's leadership and this guy is
giving me Denis's
wikipedia page... like everyone knows Denis. He is the topic of
conversation in salons
all across Europe. they never did, BTW answer the question as to who
So far we have Denis.
> I'm honestly not seeing this at all. My
> tentative conclusion is that you have not stated - to my knowledge -
> any fair basis for your accusations, and that the page could very
> easily have been posted unilaterally by pretty much any of the many
> readers of the Devuan-related 'Dng' mailing list whom you ended up
> severely annoying, around that time.
> I will also note that Mr. Roio did in fact publicly post a request
> that nobody attack you. So, you should stop claiming he hasn't tried
> to rein in the attack, as that is not correct.
Where? That would be good. Even people on his mailing list had noticed
that even had several prodding that is has not spoken out against the
personal threat. Kumbayah...
>>Unless you _do_ have reasons for so claiming, blaming Roio for the
page is neither fair nor reasonable. Thank heavens, none of us is
responsible for the actions of random unhinged or scummy people claiming
to be on our side, or, speaking for myself, I'd be in deep and abiding
trouble. Ruben, please understand that I'm just trying to tell you the
way I'm seeing it. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother. But I would
advise you to chill (not about the page but about accusing Roio about
He has a close circle of people he is involved with and this posting
came from someone that inside knowledge. In the course of hostile
conversation, people can say and do things they can later regret. If
this is the case and he has made a public statement to not to harm me or
my children, something you say you saw, but I didn't see it, then by all
means, let his attack dogs, yes even ones from Argentina, remove the
post and we are done. At minimum he should public ask the post to be
This is crazy. If i was him I would have already done this. But then
again if I was him I would have already made it public who is involved
with Devuan since i was soliciting money and work from people, instead
of being a slimeball.
/> > How is Devuan going to be organization? Who is its project leader?
> > What is its structure?/
the project leaders are the members of the VUA collective (of which I'm
just one). The VUAs have written the documentation insofar present on
the web and such documentation and proposition is what motivates people
to donate money. Dyne.org is there so that this money doesn't go into a
private account, but a public one administered by a foundation with a
clear mandate to serve the public interest with free and open source
If someone would have preferred and trusted more kickstarter for this:
we simply don't. If the VUAs will like to give a percentage of the
donated amount to Dyne.org, to compensate for the administration costs,
then we'll take it, but we will not impose a service fee. Dyne.org help
is completely voluntary and promoted by me above all other members of
The VUAs will respond about their promises to donors. For Devuan we will
see what structure to take, but since the objective of this project is
clear to most of us and to our audience (to the point they evidently
willing to donate for it in full possession of their will, also noting
the documentation is rather technical and implies knowledge of technical
aspects) we will not negotiate what we have declared we are doing, we
will just execute it. We are software artisans, not politicians.
That is not an answer as to who leading this, who is receiving money that
is donated to them and how it is spent.
It is all still cloak and dagger. the only reason I back off initially
was a combination
of school and a belief that I had that this guy is actually a loon, but
probably not a
Since then I've had to reevaluate that.
Why? Because of things like this which is a pattern, not an exception.
Indeed. But he is now claiming that I'm the author of a website
containing threats against him and his family, which is truly not the
Ummm no Denis. I'm accusing you of inciting this, and encouraging it.
And I think you
are doing so directly. Whether you or a compatriot did this, whether
you asked him
to or not, you encouraged it and you refuse to takes the steps necessary
to rein it
If you were a mench, Denis, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.