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DATE 2004-07-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2004-07-30
FROM From: "Inker, Evan"
SUBJECT RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!
From owner-hangout-destenys-at-mrbrklyn.com Fri Jul 30 15:17:32 2004
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From: "Inker, Evan"
To: "'Michael Richardson'" ,
"'Adam Kosmin'"

Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:18:41 +0100
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REVOLT! REVOLT! REVOLT!
But Only after we adjoin for our customary Beer Fest

Regards,

Evan M. Inker (New York) x. 4615



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Richardson [mailto:MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us]
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 2:52 PM
To: 'Adam Kosmin'; Inker, Evan
Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi
d!


Does this mean SysAdmins are going to revolt?

--
"In The Business World
An Executive Knows Something About Everything,
A Technician Knows Everything About Something,
And the Switchboard Operator Knows Everything."

No one person is smarter than their team!




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Kosmin [mailto:akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 1:58 PM
> To: Inker, Evan
> Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
> Subject: Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation,
> stupid!
>
>
> From a sysadmin's point of view, this is the laaaaaaaaaaamest thing
> I've read in a long time.
>
> Adam
>
> " Here's a Letter every Sys/Admin has wanted to send to at least 1 "
> Developer/Programmer.... "
> " SysAdmin to SysAdmin ,
> " Administration
> "
> "
> "
> "
> "
> "
>
> " SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
> "
> "
> " Wednesday July 28, 2004 (08:01 AM GMT)
> "
> " By: Brian Jones
> "
> " Dear open source developers: We sysadmins are tired of the crap you've
> been
> " throwing at us. It seems you've been assuming all these years that we
> " sysadmins are coders, and thus, "the code is the documentation." In
> reality,
> " we are not coders. We are systems administrators, which is precisely
> why the
> " word "coder" does not appear on anything which also has our name on it
> --
> " and thus, your mantra is no longer cute.
> "
> "
> "
> " We are but lowly sods who mill about in the background, ensuring
> things like
> " email and backup are working, and that users can get to the resources
> they
> " need to do their jobs. Some of these users are even coders; but not
> us.
> "
> " We wish not for fame, but for stability. We dream not of the next
> killer
> " app, but rather have nightmares about the next killer worm. We don't
> look
> " forward to going to work every day to mangle bits, but rather to leave
> " without maiming a luser.
> "
> " We are the Men In Black, completely invisible to all but those who
> seek our
> " help (or who market products to us). We want to be in the background
> as much
> " as possible. We don't even want to talk to others who aren't
> sysadmins.
> " We'll go so far as to refrain from joining a single mailing list, so
> as to
> " avoid the temptation of asking a question in some public forum, lest
> we be
> " deemed foolish in some way. Our greatest wish is that those who come
> into
> " contact with us forget that we even exist only seconds after they
> leave. We
> " would kill for one of those "flashy things" like Tommy Lee Jones had
> in that
> " movie.
> "
> " However, thanks to you open source developers, we instead look like a
> " conspicuous flock of shiny-headed, drooling lunatics, incapable of
> " deciphering even the simplest of tasks.
> "
> " Why systems administrators don't use your stuff
> "
> " You probably really do have the next killer app. You probably shout
> about it
> " on every BBS and every mailing list possible.
> "
> "
> "
> > 1027
> " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
> "
> "
> "
> "
> > 1027
> " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
> "
> " You've posted your release announcements to NewsForge. You even got
> " Slashdotted once. But still, nobody is downloading, and that email
> link on
> " your site saying "tell me if you're using it in production" hasn't
> been
> " clicked on even a single time. You spend hours coding, coding, coding.
> You
> " spend more hours promoting and generally keeping up with all things
> open
> " source. You have an infinite number of IRC buddies who think you are
> 70t-at-||y
> " 1337.
> "
> " Whatever. I'm not using it, and I'll tell you why. There is no
> " documentation.
> "
> " When I say "there is no documentation," I don't necessarily mean that
> there
> " is literally not a single file containing English text. What I mean is
> that
> " there has not been one ounce of energy expended on the part of the
> developer
> " to make clear the ideas behind the creation of your alleged
> masterpiece. Not
> " an ounce of consideration has been given to the administrator who must
> " implement, maintain, upgrade, support, troubleshoot, roll back, and
> yes,
> " possibly even hack it into submission using (gasp) actual code. There
> are no
> " "gotchas" listed anywhere in the README file, there is nothing but the
> " default INSTALL file, and the most thoughtfully created file in the
> entire
> " tarball is the file that gives thanks to all the people involved. And
> this
> " is just the source tree I'm talking about.
> "
> " GUI apps have a Help menu with nothing listed in there but an "about"
> " option, which pops up the slickest little thing I've ever seen. It
> must have
> " taken hours to create - and yet, there is no documentation worth
> looking at!
> " Please get your priorities straight, or delist your freshmeat project.
> "
> " Sysadmins don't use your stuff because your documentation is
> disgusting.
> " Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go write some. The bigger
> problem
> " for you coders, really, is that there are usually 20 different
> packages on
> " freshmeat that all do the same thing. Of those 20, probably one or two
> have
> " real-life, usable documentation. With documentation, I can get to know
> the
> " software. Then I'll install it on a test box. If it works, great, I'm
> " tickled pink. If it doesn't quite work, then I'm interested in giving
> " feedback, because here's someone who will roll it back into the
> product or
> " the documentation. This is a useful cycle that benefits millions, not
> the
> " least of which is the coder! Documentation ends up resulting in a more
> " mature product! Wake up!
> "
> " The code is NOT the documentation
> "
> " The code might've been the documentation to some degree back when 90%
> of the
> " programs were written with 10% of the available programming languages.
> " Nowadays, this doesn't fly. As an administrator, my job is to keep up
> with
> " the latest and greatest in strategies and technologies involved in
> deploying
> " services for the benefit of some user base. I sift through information
> " looking for something relevant to my environment, filter that out, and
> start
> " looking at software options I can use to deploy a service in a
> particular
> " way. Nowhere in my job description does it say that I have to learn
> every
> " new programming language in the event that someone develops a useful
> piece
> " of software in it.
> "
> " I'm not even supposed to be looking at what language it's done in. I
> " shouldn't have to care. You shouldn't want me to care. Hell, you
> shouldn't
> " even want me to know about the different programming languages! Think
> of all
> " the Java apps I might've deployed if not for the fact that I know it
> rather
> " intimately and avoid it like the plague! But if the code is the
> " documentation, this pretty much forces the issue of getting into the
> guts of
> " all of these languages, not to mention buying way too many O'Reilly
> books.
> "
> " No, my job is to read the documentation available for the software.
> The goal
> " in this stage of research is to get the coder's philosophy on dealing
> with
> " the problem at hand. Hopefully, I can find an explanation that fits my
> " brain. Once that's done, it's time to read on through the technical
> side of
> " the documentation to gain an understanding of the implications of
> deploying
> " said software. What does the software need? How does it do its job?
> How does
> " it handle concurrent users? How much memory will it take under some
> example
> " load? What ports does it open? How do I secure this thing? Does this
> replace
> " another tool I'm already using? Why should I use it if I'm already
> using
> " another app that seems to do the same thing? What other pieces of
> software
> " complement this one? How is that software traditionally configured so
> that
> " this software can take advantage of it?
> "
> " I could go on like this for days. Really. So can most other
> administrators,
> " about random packages, or no packages at all. Our job is to be
> skeptical,
> " lazy, and a bit suspicious. We ask questions as much to justify our
> " skepticism as to gain knowledge. Your job, as a coder, is to either
> answer a
> " reasonable number of our questions up front (and point to a place
> where even
> " more are answered), or get an open source devotee to volunteer to help
> you
> " write the documentation for you. Please do so.
> "
> " Exceptions? There are none. I've seen CLI programs that take only five
> or
> " six flags, but there's nothing there to tell me how they actually do
> their
> " job. Is it largefile aware? Is it scriptable? Is it comparing values
> before
> " or after operation "x"? Sure, I'm an experienced systems guy, so I
> know how
> " systems generally work, and I understand a good number of system
> calls; this
> " doesn't mean I should have to run strace or tcpdump to get a grip on
> what
> " this thing is doing!
> "
> " I have refrained from naming names here. It would serve no useful
> purpose,
> " as my sysadmin colleagues can probably think of exactly the projects
> I'm
> " talking about (as can the respective coders). I hope that this open
> letter
> " gives someone some insight into how systems administrators approach
> finding
> " a solution to a problem.
> "
> " Sincerely yours,
> " Brian Jones
> "
> "
> "
> "
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> " This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> " for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named
> addressee
> " you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> " Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
> " this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> " E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> " as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive
> " late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
> " accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
> " message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
> " If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
> " This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
> " be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities
> or
> " related financial instruments.
> " GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is
> " regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
> "
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> "
>
> --
>
> "Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my line of
> reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our complaint
> to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a lot of
> the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what it
> is."
>
> -- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03 ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc


****************************************************************************
This message contains confidential information and is intended only
for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named addressee
you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive
late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
related financial instruments.
GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is
regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
****************************************************************************

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

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  6. 2004-07-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!
  7. 2004-07-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi
  8. 2004-07-30 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
  9. 2004-07-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
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  29. 2004-07-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
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  32. 2004-07-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
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  35. 2004-07-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
  36. 2004-07-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 5% of all PCs in 2004 shipped with Linux
  37. 2004-07-23 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
  38. 2004-07-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
  39. 2004-07-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] RAM for Suse 9.1
  40. 2004-07-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Good and Bad news Tape - LUG/IP
  41. 2004-07-22 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Good and Bad news Tape - LUG/IP
  42. 2004-07-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Good and Bad news Tape - LUG/IP
  43. 2004-07-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Good and Bad news Tape - LUG/IP
  44. 2004-07-22 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Good and Bad news Tape - LUG/IP
  45. 2004-07-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: Volunteers Needed for New User Days]
  46. 2004-07-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Video 1 step forward
  47. 2004-07-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Video 1 step forward
  48. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS Trademark on Windows caused a settlement in favor of Lindows
  49. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Brooklyn Freedom
  50. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Perl Jobs] Programmer Analyst, CT, Stamford
  51. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suse 9.1 Review
  52. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Outreach
  53. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  54. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  55. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  56. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  57. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Installfest
  58. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  59. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  60. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  61. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  62. 2004-07-17 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] via voice
  63. 2004-07-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: php4 (SUSE-SA:2004:021) [krahmer-at-suse.de]
  64. 2004-07-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Senators serious about DMCA fair use (fwd)
  65. 2004-07-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] great job Rob
  66. 2004-07-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] great job Rob
  67. 2004-07-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] great job Rob
  68. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs in Brooklyn for real cash
  69. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  70. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  71. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  72. 2004-07-15 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  73. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  74. 2004-07-15 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] leaving for the killarny
  75. 2004-07-15 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Since I haven't contributed in a while...
  76. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  77. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  78. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  79. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  80. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  81. 2004-07-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  82. 2004-07-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  83. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  84. 2004-07-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS inservice on Kerberos5, Cyrus SASL, OpenLDAP
  85. 2004-07-14 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS inservice on Kerberos5, Cyrus SASL, OpenLDAP
  86. 2004-07-14 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  87. 2004-07-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  88. 2004-07-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hack-proof and crash resistant - have you discovered the OS world 's
  89. 2004-07-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] How Linux Boots (Article)
  90. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Vendor uses DMCA to bar third-party support contracts (fwd)
  91. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Vendor uses DMCA to bar third-party support contracts
  92. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Trip to hear Ruben
  93. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Trip to hear Ruben
  94. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  95. 2004-07-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: [Perl Jobs] Web Programmer for Mason-based e-commerce site (telecommute)
  96. 2004-07-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] dev null route windows
  97. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  98. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  99. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] mod_perl/TemplateToolkit/Oracle Web Developer (onsite), United States, NY, Rochester]
  100. 2004-07-13 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  101. 2004-07-13 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  102. 2004-07-13 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  103. 2004-07-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Classes begin tonight
  104. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Classes begin tonight
  105. 2004-07-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  106. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: This Wed. Gnubies - Intro to Securing Your Email: Encryption
  107. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> FW: [hangout] Mike, take a look, NYDailyNews-Boroughs-Civic group
  108. 2004-07-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  109. 2004-07-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  110. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mike, take a look, NYDailyNews-Boroughs-Civic groups go hi-tech with donated PCs
  111. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] DNS Question
  112. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Glimmer of hope in copyright measures
  113. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Nitix Autonomic Linux-based Server Operating System
  114. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Nitix Autonomic Linux-based Server Operating System
  115. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Day write up - again
  116. 2004-07-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bettina_Faltermeier-at-mcgraw-hill.com: Publisher Partnership Invitatio
  117. 2004-07-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Technite
  118. 2004-07-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite
  119. 2004-07-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Technite
  120. 2004-07-10 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [TechForum] Gender Equity and F/OSS: New book submissions requested
  121. 2004-07-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  122. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Commentary: Why Dell is scurrying to cover its tracks in Linspire
  123. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  124. 2004-07-09 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  125. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  126. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] UNIGROUP Field Trip Meeting: 15-JUL-2004: Solaris 10 Launch Event
  127. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting to Know Linux Class - July 24, 2004 (NYPC)
  128. 2004-07-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  129. 2004-07-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  130. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] who is our contact at novell
  131. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for
  132. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  133. 2004-07-08 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux =?iso-8859-1?q?for=09Free?=
  134. 2004-07-08 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  135. 2004-07-08 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  136. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Anti-Spam Web Site (Great Info)
  137. 2004-07-08 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] who is our contact at novell
  138. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] New 1G Email Service Available - www.walla.com
  139. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  140. 2004-07-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Video Recording
  141. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Video Recording
  142. 2004-07-08 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Video Recording
  143. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton
  144. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Trip to Princeton
  145. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton
  146. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] In-service
  147. 2004-07-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Contribution
  148. 2004-07-07 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] In-service
  149. 2004-07-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] In-service
  150. 2004-07-07 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Dell to Offer Linux-Loaded PCs in Europe (fwd)
  151. 2004-07-06 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  152. 2004-07-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  153. 2004-07-06 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  154. 2004-07-06 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux, Still an Awkward Alternative (Washington Post)
  155. 2004-07-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  156. 2004-07-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  157. 2004-07-05 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: Re: [politics] France has only 800 soldiers in Afghanistan]
  158. 2004-07-04 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] blowing up Small Schools
  159. 2004-07-04 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] In Service Program
  160. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hunter College has Linux Courses!
  161. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] In Service Program
  162. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  163. 2004-07-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  164. 2004-07-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  165. 2004-07-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  166. 2004-07-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] forwarding mail
  167. 2004-07-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jays-at-panix.com: [orgcom-mgmt] puck info for orgcom mailing list (fwd)

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