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DATE 2004-07-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2004-07-30
FROM Michael Richardson
SUBJECT RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi
From owner-hangout-destenys-at-mrbrklyn.com Fri Jul 30 14:55:25 2004
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From: Michael Richardson
To: "'Adam Kosmin'" , "Inker, Evan"
Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:52:17 -0400
Subject: RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi
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Does this mean SysAdmins are going to revolt?

--
"In The Business World
An Executive Knows Something About Everything,
A Technician Knows Everything About Something,
And the Switchboard Operator Knows Everything."

No one person is smarter than their team!




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Kosmin [mailto:akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 1:58 PM
> To: Inker, Evan
> Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
> Subject: Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation,
> stupid!
>
>
> From a sysadmin's point of view, this is the laaaaaaaaaaamest thing I've
> read in a long time.
>
> Adam
>
> " Here's a Letter every Sys/Admin has wanted to send to at least 1
> " Developer/Programmer....
> "
> " SysAdmin to SysAdmin ,
> " Administration
> "
> "
> "
> "
> "
> "
>
> " SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
> "
> "
> " Wednesday July 28, 2004 (08:01 AM GMT)
> "
> " By: Brian Jones
> "
> " Dear open source developers: We sysadmins are tired of the crap you've
> been
> " throwing at us. It seems you've been assuming all these years that we
> " sysadmins are coders, and thus, "the code is the documentation." In
> reality,
> " we are not coders. We are systems administrators, which is precisely
> why the
> " word "coder" does not appear on anything which also has our name on it
> --
> " and thus, your mantra is no longer cute.
> "
> "
> "
> " We are but lowly sods who mill about in the background, ensuring
> things like
> " email and backup are working, and that users can get to the resources
> they
> " need to do their jobs. Some of these users are even coders; but not
> us.
> "
> " We wish not for fame, but for stability. We dream not of the next
> killer
> " app, but rather have nightmares about the next killer worm. We don't
> look
> " forward to going to work every day to mangle bits, but rather to leave
> " without maiming a luser.
> "
> " We are the Men In Black, completely invisible to all but those who
> seek our
> " help (or who market products to us). We want to be in the background
> as much
> " as possible. We don't even want to talk to others who aren't
> sysadmins.
> " We'll go so far as to refrain from joining a single mailing list, so
> as to
> " avoid the temptation of asking a question in some public forum, lest
> we be
> " deemed foolish in some way. Our greatest wish is that those who come
> into
> " contact with us forget that we even exist only seconds after they
> leave. We
> " would kill for one of those "flashy things" like Tommy Lee Jones had
> in that
> " movie.
> "
> " However, thanks to you open source developers, we instead look like a
> " conspicuous flock of shiny-headed, drooling lunatics, incapable of
> " deciphering even the simplest of tasks.
> "
> " Why systems administrators don't use your stuff
> "
> " You probably really do have the next killer app. You probably shout
> about it
> " on every BBS and every mailing list possible.
> "
> "
> "
> > 1027
> " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
> "
> "
> "
> "
> > 1027
> " &op=click&page=%2farticle%2epl>
> "
> " You've posted your release announcements to NewsForge. You even got
> " Slashdotted once. But still, nobody is downloading, and that email
> link on
> " your site saying "tell me if you're using it in production" hasn't
> been
> " clicked on even a single time. You spend hours coding, coding, coding.
> You
> " spend more hours promoting and generally keeping up with all things
> open
> " source. You have an infinite number of IRC buddies who think you are
> 70t-at-||y
> " 1337.
> "
> " Whatever. I'm not using it, and I'll tell you why. There is no
> " documentation.
> "
> " When I say "there is no documentation," I don't necessarily mean that
> there
> " is literally not a single file containing English text. What I mean is
> that
> " there has not been one ounce of energy expended on the part of the
> developer
> " to make clear the ideas behind the creation of your alleged
> masterpiece. Not
> " an ounce of consideration has been given to the administrator who must
> " implement, maintain, upgrade, support, troubleshoot, roll back, and
> yes,
> " possibly even hack it into submission using (gasp) actual code. There
> are no
> " "gotchas" listed anywhere in the README file, there is nothing but the
> " default INSTALL file, and the most thoughtfully created file in the
> entire
> " tarball is the file that gives thanks to all the people involved. And
> this
> " is just the source tree I'm talking about.
> "
> " GUI apps have a Help menu with nothing listed in there but an "about"
> " option, which pops up the slickest little thing I've ever seen. It
> must have
> " taken hours to create - and yet, there is no documentation worth
> looking at!
> " Please get your priorities straight, or delist your freshmeat project.
> "
> " Sysadmins don't use your stuff because your documentation is
> disgusting.
> " Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go write some. The bigger
> problem
> " for you coders, really, is that there are usually 20 different
> packages on
> " freshmeat that all do the same thing. Of those 20, probably one or two
> have
> " real-life, usable documentation. With documentation, I can get to know
> the
> " software. Then I'll install it on a test box. If it works, great, I'm
> " tickled pink. If it doesn't quite work, then I'm interested in giving
> " feedback, because here's someone who will roll it back into the
> product or
> " the documentation. This is a useful cycle that benefits millions, not
> the
> " least of which is the coder! Documentation ends up resulting in a more
> " mature product! Wake up!
> "
> " The code is NOT the documentation
> "
> " The code might've been the documentation to some degree back when 90%
> of the
> " programs were written with 10% of the available programming languages.
> " Nowadays, this doesn't fly. As an administrator, my job is to keep up
> with
> " the latest and greatest in strategies and technologies involved in
> deploying
> " services for the benefit of some user base. I sift through information
> " looking for something relevant to my environment, filter that out, and
> start
> " looking at software options I can use to deploy a service in a
> particular
> " way. Nowhere in my job description does it say that I have to learn
> every
> " new programming language in the event that someone develops a useful
> piece
> " of software in it.
> "
> " I'm not even supposed to be looking at what language it's done in. I
> " shouldn't have to care. You shouldn't want me to care. Hell, you
> shouldn't
> " even want me to know about the different programming languages! Think
> of all
> " the Java apps I might've deployed if not for the fact that I know it
> rather
> " intimately and avoid it like the plague! But if the code is the
> " documentation, this pretty much forces the issue of getting into the
> guts of
> " all of these languages, not to mention buying way too many O'Reilly
> books.
> "
> " No, my job is to read the documentation available for the software.
> The goal
> " in this stage of research is to get the coder's philosophy on dealing
> with
> " the problem at hand. Hopefully, I can find an explanation that fits my
> " brain. Once that's done, it's time to read on through the technical
> side of
> " the documentation to gain an understanding of the implications of
> deploying
> " said software. What does the software need? How does it do its job?
> How does
> " it handle concurrent users? How much memory will it take under some
> example
> " load? What ports does it open? How do I secure this thing? Does this
> replace
> " another tool I'm already using? Why should I use it if I'm already
> using
> " another app that seems to do the same thing? What other pieces of
> software
> " complement this one? How is that software traditionally configured so
> that
> " this software can take advantage of it?
> "
> " I could go on like this for days. Really. So can most other
> administrators,
> " about random packages, or no packages at all. Our job is to be
> skeptical,
> " lazy, and a bit suspicious. We ask questions as much to justify our
> " skepticism as to gain knowledge. Your job, as a coder, is to either
> answer a
> " reasonable number of our questions up front (and point to a place
> where even
> " more are answered), or get an open source devotee to volunteer to help
> you
> " write the documentation for you. Please do so.
> "
> " Exceptions? There are none. I've seen CLI programs that take only five
> or
> " six flags, but there's nothing there to tell me how they actually do
> their
> " job. Is it largefile aware? Is it scriptable? Is it comparing values
> before
> " or after operation "x"? Sure, I'm an experienced systems guy, so I
> know how
> " systems generally work, and I understand a good number of system
> calls; this
> " doesn't mean I should have to run strace or tcpdump to get a grip on
> what
> " this thing is doing!
> "
> " I have refrained from naming names here. It would serve no useful
> purpose,
> " as my sysadmin colleagues can probably think of exactly the projects
> I'm
> " talking about (as can the respective coders). I hope that this open
> letter
> " gives someone some insight into how systems administrators approach
> finding
> " a solution to a problem.
> "
> " Sincerely yours,
> " Brian Jones
> "
> "
> "
> "
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> " This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> " for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named
> addressee
> " you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> " Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
> " this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> " E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> " as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive
> " late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
> " accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
> " message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
> " If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
> " This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
> " be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities
> or
> " related financial instruments.
> " GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is
> " regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
> "
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> "
>
> --
>
> "Yes, Your Honor. Now, where we are so far, in at least my
> line of reasoning, is I want to walk the Court through enough of our
> complaint to help the Court understand that IBM clearly did contribute a
> lot of the Unix-related information into Linux. We just don't know what
> it is."
>
> -- Kevin McBride SCO vs. IBM 12/05/03
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2004-07-31 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: legal music downloads?
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  6. 2004-07-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi d!
  7. 2004-07-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupi
  8. 2004-07-30 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
  9. 2004-07-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SysAdmin to SysAdmin: It's the documentation, stupid!
  10. 2004-07-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] More Than 90% of Linux Systems Have Never Been Infected by a Viru s,
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  14. 2004-07-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Call for Volunteers - Software Freedom Day 2004
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  49. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Brooklyn Freedom
  50. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Perl Jobs] Programmer Analyst, CT, Stamford
  51. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suse 9.1 Review
  52. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Outreach
  53. 2004-07-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  54. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  55. 2004-07-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  56. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  57. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Installfest
  58. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  59. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  60. 2004-07-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  61. 2004-07-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Help Camera Problems
  62. 2004-07-17 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] via voice
  63. 2004-07-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: php4 (SUSE-SA:2004:021) [krahmer-at-suse.de]
  64. 2004-07-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Senators serious about DMCA fair use (fwd)
  65. 2004-07-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] great job Rob
  66. 2004-07-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] great job Rob
  67. 2004-07-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] great job Rob
  68. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs in Brooklyn for real cash
  69. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  70. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  71. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  72. 2004-07-15 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  73. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] Time for vengeance
  74. 2004-07-15 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] leaving for the killarny
  75. 2004-07-15 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Since I haven't contributed in a while...
  76. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  77. 2004-07-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  78. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  79. 2004-07-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  80. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  81. 2004-07-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  82. 2004-07-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] dev null route windows
  83. 2004-07-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  84. 2004-07-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS inservice on Kerberos5, Cyrus SASL, OpenLDAP
  85. 2004-07-14 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS inservice on Kerberos5, Cyrus SASL, OpenLDAP
  86. 2004-07-14 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  87. 2004-07-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] dev null route windows
  88. 2004-07-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hack-proof and crash resistant - have you discovered the OS world 's
  89. 2004-07-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] How Linux Boots (Article)
  90. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Vendor uses DMCA to bar third-party support contracts (fwd)
  91. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Vendor uses DMCA to bar third-party support contracts
  92. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Trip to hear Ruben
  93. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Trip to hear Ruben
  94. 2004-07-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  95. 2004-07-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: [Perl Jobs] Web Programmer for Mason-based e-commerce site (telecommute)
  96. 2004-07-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] dev null route windows
  97. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  98. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  99. 2004-07-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] mod_perl/TemplateToolkit/Oracle Web Developer (onsite), United States, NY, Rochester]
  100. 2004-07-13 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FW:Infoworld: Is Content Control Constitutional? (fwd)
  101. 2004-07-13 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  102. 2004-07-13 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] [OT] Computer Available
  103. 2004-07-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Classes begin tonight
  104. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Classes begin tonight
  105. 2004-07-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  106. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: This Wed. Gnubies - Intro to Securing Your Email: Encryption
  107. 2004-07-13 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> FW: [hangout] Mike, take a look, NYDailyNews-Boroughs-Civic group
  108. 2004-07-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  109. 2004-07-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] DNS Question
  110. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mike, take a look, NYDailyNews-Boroughs-Civic groups go hi-tech with donated PCs
  111. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] DNS Question
  112. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Glimmer of hope in copyright measures
  113. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Nitix Autonomic Linux-based Server Operating System
  114. 2004-07-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Nitix Autonomic Linux-based Server Operating System
  115. 2004-07-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Day write up - again
  116. 2004-07-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bettina_Faltermeier-at-mcgraw-hill.com: Publisher Partnership Invitatio
  117. 2004-07-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Technite
  118. 2004-07-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite
  119. 2004-07-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Technite
  120. 2004-07-10 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [TechForum] Gender Equity and F/OSS: New book submissions requested
  121. 2004-07-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  122. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Commentary: Why Dell is scurrying to cover its tracks in Linspire
  123. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  124. 2004-07-09 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  125. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Commentary: Patched in 60 Seconds
  126. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] UNIGROUP Field Trip Meeting: 15-JUL-2004: Solaris 10 Launch Event
  127. 2004-07-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting to Know Linux Class - July 24, 2004 (NYPC)
  128. 2004-07-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  129. 2004-07-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  130. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] who is our contact at novell
  131. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for
  132. 2004-07-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  133. 2004-07-08 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux =?iso-8859-1?q?for=09Free?=
  134. 2004-07-08 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] HOPE 2600 This weekend (NYC)] (fwd)
  135. 2004-07-08 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  136. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Anti-Spam Web Site (Great Info)
  137. 2004-07-08 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] who is our contact at novell
  138. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] New 1G Email Service Available - www.walla.com
  139. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Free 10 GB Novell Resource Kit: Get SuSE Linux for Free
  140. 2004-07-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Video Recording
  141. 2004-07-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Video Recording
  142. 2004-07-08 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Video Recording
  143. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton
  144. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Trip to Princeton
  145. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton
  146. 2004-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] In-service
  147. 2004-07-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Contribution
  148. 2004-07-07 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] In-service
  149. 2004-07-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] In-service
  150. 2004-07-07 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Dell to Offer Linux-Loaded PCs in Europe (fwd)
  151. 2004-07-06 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  152. 2004-07-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  153. 2004-07-06 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] changing date of ldap inservice
  154. 2004-07-06 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux, Still an Awkward Alternative (Washington Post)
  155. 2004-07-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  156. 2004-07-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  157. 2004-07-05 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: Re: [politics] France has only 800 soldiers in Afghanistan]
  158. 2004-07-04 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] blowing up Small Schools
  159. 2004-07-04 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] In Service Program
  160. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hunter College has Linux Courses!
  161. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] In Service Program
  162. 2004-07-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  163. 2004-07-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  164. 2004-07-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  165. 2004-07-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  166. 2004-07-01 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] forwarding mail
  167. 2004-07-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jays-at-panix.com: [orgcom-mgmt] puck info for orgcom mailing list (fwd)

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