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Key: Value:

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MESSAGE
DATE 2023-05-14
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
-- forwarded message --
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Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 04:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Human & ape evolution
From: marc verhaegen
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Xref: panix sci.bio.paleontology:77255

Op dinsdag 25 april 2023 om 14:22:39 UTC+2 schreef oot...-at-hot.ee:

> > 4 frequent paleo-anthropological prejudices, with 0 evidence:=20
> > Many PAs still *assume* that human ancestors=20
> > 1) became bipedal when we left the trees for the gound??=20
> > 2) came Out-of-Africa (OoA)??=20
> > 3) were savanna-dwellers???

> That is not that popular hypothesis. You typically use it as straw man.=
=20

It's only 1 of the many popular PA prejudices.

> Found remains show indications that our ancestors were still well=20
> adapted to climbing trees, even after they had begun to walk upright.=20

Of course: google "aquarboreal"!

> > 4) had australopithecine ancestors??=20

> And also its bones demonstrate features consistent with tree climbing.

Yes, of course:
https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upri=
ght-walking-in-early-humans/

> > These are only anthropo- & afro-centric just-so pre-assumptions:=20
> > - Darwin thought "Out of Africa" (Pan & Gorilla were African),=20
> > - Africa (apart from sahara) is mostly jungle or savanna,=20
> > - apiths lived in Africa, were BP, and had some humanlike anatomical tr=
aits.=20

> Typical lie that all the science is what some bearded guys thought=20
> more than hundred years ago. That kind of lies are common among=20
> people who do not read scientific publications. IOW flat earthers,=20
> geocentrists and deep one worshipers.

Worshipers?

> > Therefore, many (most?) PAs still assume, without evidence, that=20
> > 1) we became BP after we split from Pan, and left the forest,

> Where you concluded that we left forests?

I?? =20
Traditional PAers: I'm trying to understand how many PAers still reason.

> Why? Forest is full=20
> of edible nuts, eggs, fruit, mushrooms and animals are easier to=20
> trap or ambush. Is it because you live in country that has all=20
> forest cut down? Do not mirror your tragedy to our ancestors.

??=20
Lots of trees in my garden...

> > 2) Homo & "hominins" originated in Africa (OoA),=20
> > 3) we ran bipedally in savannas,

> Depends what savannas. Heavily wooded? Or why they had=20
> capability to climb?

I wouldn't know: I'm trying to understand how many PAists still reason.

> > 4) BP fossils in Africa incl. apiths are =E2=80=9Chominin=E2=80=9D (ant=
hropo-centric belief: Pan & Gorilla have no fossils=E2=80=A6??).=20
> > But=20
> > 1) early-Miocene Hominoidea were already BP=3Dvertical waders-climbers =
in swamp forests (humans & gibbons still are BP), google AQUARBOREAL,

> Here is a word our sole deep one worshiper pushes. Note that=20
> its sole evidence is few carved seashells found on Java. Place=20
> where even crow can find seashells, but no one starts to tell=20
> that crow did dive.

You're still confusing
- Mio-Pliocene aquarboreal Hominoidea,
- early-Pleist. shallow-diving H.erectus.

> > 2) Mio-Pliocene Hominoidea came from N-Tethys coasts (hylobatids & pong=
ids still live in SE.Asia),=20
> > 3) human ancestors have always been waterside (cf. physiology, anatomy,=
diet+DHA, island colonizations, intercontin.dispersals etc.etc.),=20
> > 4) E.Afr.apiths resemble Gorilla > Pan > Homo, S.Afr.apiths resemble Pa=
n > Homo or Gorilla (e.g. my Hum.Evol.papers).=20
> > https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-=
upright-walking-in-early-humans/=20
> > Partial convergence? Nasalis monkeys (large & upright body, rel.long le=
gs=E2=80=A6) in mangrove forests also often wade bipedally & climb arms ove=
rhead.=20
> > Likely scenario IMO: Plate Tectonics & Hominoid Splittings:=20
> > c 30 Ma India approaching S-Asia formed island archipels =3D coastal fo=
rests++=20
> > c 25 Ma Catarrhini reaching these islands became wading bipedally + cli=
mbing arms overhead =3D aquarboreal Hominoidea.=20
> > c 20 Ma India further underneath Asia split hylobatids (E) & other=3Dgr=
eat apes (W), both following coastal forests along N-Tethys Ocean (E vs W).=
=20
> > c 15 Ma Mesopotamian Seaway Closure split pongid-sivapith (E) & hominid=
-dryopith (W: Medit.Sea + hominids s.s. in incipient Red Sea swamp forests)=
.=20
> > c 8 Ma in Red Sea: N-Rift fm, followed by Gorilla -> Afar -> Praeanthro=
pus afarensis -> boisei -> today G.gorilla & G.beringei.=20
> > c 5 Ma the Red Sea opens into Gulf (Francesca Mansfield thinks caused b=
y the Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma):=20
> > =E2=80=93 Pan went right: E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> Transvaal =
-> Australopith.africanus -> robustus (// Gorilla) -> today P.troglodytes &=
P.paniscus,=20
> > =E2=80=93 Homo went left: S.Asian coasts -> Java early-Pleist.H.erectus=
-> shallow-diving: pachy-osteo-sclerosis, DHA, brain+, stone tools, shell =
engravings...=20
> > mid- -> late-Pleist.: diving -> wading -> walking H.sapiens.=20
> > Early-Pleist. H.erectus' diet was probably mostly shellfish (engravings=
, stone tools, DHA & larger brain etc.),=20
> > but what did Mio-Pliocene Hominoidea eat in coastal forests? fruits? ma=
ngrove oysters? sort of rice?? ...?

> Yeah forests were more moist indeed before; stupid humans have dried=20
> these out recently to gain access to wood with vehicles or for to turn th=
ose=20
> into non-sustainable farmlands. Also there were floods sometimes so most=
=20
> animals can swim fine, wolf, deer, bear, even PAN. But indeed ... go find=
=20
> seashells in swamp. Good luck.=20

You're still confusing
- Mio-Pliocene aquarboreal Hominoidea,
- early-Pleist. shallow-diving H.erectus.

aqua=3Dwater, arbor=3Dtree


> The savanna hypothesis did not become obsolete because your deep=20
> divers found any ... counter-evidence is about climbing, not deep diving.

?? is the savanna hypothesis "obsolete"??
?? *deep*divers??
-- end of forwarded message --
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  63. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  64. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
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  66. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
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  71. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  72. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  73. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  74. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  75. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  76. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  77. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  78. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  79. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  80. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  81. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  82. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  83. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  84. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  85. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  86. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
  87. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: why bash in $0 ?
  88. 2023-05-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: why bash in $0 ?
  89. 2023-05-15 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #616 - Camel in India
  90. 2023-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] WSJ Legal Notices
  91. 2023-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] OK - We are here.... Thank You COVID
  92. 2023-05-15 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?This_week_at_the_ANS=E2=80=94May_19?=
  93. 2023-05-27 Joel Brobecker <brobecker-at-adacore.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GDB 13.2 released!
  94. 2023-05-26 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Join us for today's Long Table with David
  95. 2023-05-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Blue Ribbon Panel
  96. 2023-05-29 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?This_week_at_the_ANS=E2=80=94June_2?=
  97. 2023-05-29 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #618 - Conference Season?
  98. 2023-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: One Year MBA in HC,
  99. 2023-05-31 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Weaponing the Justice system continues | |
  100. 2023-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Weaponing the Justice system continues | |
  101. 2023-05-31 From: "Chaim Desser" <info-at-poelgroupstaffing.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] current positions to fill

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