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MESSAGE
DATE 2023-05-14
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) Re: Human & ape evolution
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<8e10d592-fd89-48be-846f-21bd43922082n-at-googlegroups.com> <7b2d4a90-bec8-41e5-8e10-fe6f25d1d150n-at-googlegroups.com>


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Subject: Re: Human & ape evolution
From: "oot...-at-hot.ee"
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Xref: panix sci.bio.paleontology:77276

On Wednesday, 10 May 2023 at 14:50:23 UTC+3, marc verhaegen wrote:

> - "Lineage-specific expansions of retroviral insertions within the genome=
s of African great apes, but not humans and orangutans" CT Yohn cs 2005 PLo=
S Biol.3:e110 10.1371/journal.pbio.0030110=20
>=20
From the cited by you article ...=20

"First, there is virtually no overlap (less than 4%) between the location o=
f insertions among chimpanzee, gorilla, macaque, and baboon, making it unli=
kely that endogenous copies existed in a common ancestor and then became su=
bsequently deleted in the human lineage and orangutan lineage. Second, the =
PTERV1 phylogenetic tree is inconsistent with the generally accepted specie=
s tree for primates, suggesting a horizontal transmission as opposed to a v=
ertical transmission from a common ape ancestor."

... and ...=20

"Using neutral estimates of primate LTR divergence [8], we estimate that a =
contemporaneous infection occurred in these ancestral gorilla and chimpanze=
e lineages 3=E2=80=934 million years ago (see Materials and Methods). LTR d=
ivergence among baboon and macaque was significantly less (0.051% and 0.058=
%, respectively; p < 0.007, one-tailed t test), corresponding to a much mor=
e recent origin (approximately 1.5 million years ago)."

What you talk about is therefore retrovirus that infected those apes separa=
tely
and anyway after human ancestors had already split/stopped hybridising with
ancestors of those apes. Why are the viruses relevant?

> Obviously, australopiths were fossil relatives of Pan & Gorilla, NOT of u=
s:=20
> fossil hunters find everywhere lots of ape ancestors, but mysteriously in=
Pliocene Africa they only find "human ancestors"... :-DDD Don't they reali=
ze how ridiculously afro+anthropo-centric they are?? (but yes, who prefers =
to find an ape ancestor rather than a human ancestor...)=20

The cited article mentions australopiths in precisely zero places so it is =
unclear from
where you even took them in. By other publications australopiths appeared 4=
.2 mya
well before of those retroviruses entered genomes of said apes. If australo=
piths did
not make 3.3 mya stone tools in Kenya or 2.6 mya in Ethiopia then someone =
anyway
did. Those places are in Africa and those tools weren't likely made by chim=
panzee or
gorilla. Instead you are discussing 2.2 mya or younger stuff from time when=
tools are
all over the place: =20
g>
Particularly you cherry-pick Java with findings 1.8 mya old. Why?

> Whenever these fossil hunters discern a humanlike feature in *their* foss=
il (usu."bipedality"), they say they've found a "human anestor", not realiz=
ing that *all* Hominoidea had BP ancestors (Mio-Pliocene), not for running =
after antelopes, of course, but simply for wading upright + climbing arms o=
verhead in swamp forests, as all great apes still do occasionally (in spite=
of Pleist.coolings?), google e.g. "bonobo wading" illustrations.=20
>=20
> How is it possible that there are still idiots who believe that we got fl=
atter feet + short toes & poor olfaction (!!) & external noses & huge brain=
s & stone tools to hunt on Afr.savannas, sweating abundantly water+sodium, =
running 3x slower than antelopes?!?=20

And again your straw-man without source. What is the source of that antelop=
e chasing
garbage? You never tell. Yet your whole "aquarboreal" theory is built on fa=
lse dichotomy
between those unknown "cheetah men" and your unknown "deep ones". Without c=
ites in
scientific publications so both are most likely wrong.=20
-- end of forwarded message --
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  91. 2023-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] OK - We are here.... Thank You COVID
  92. 2023-05-15 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?This_week_at_the_ANS=E2=80=94May_19?=
  93. 2023-05-27 Joel Brobecker <brobecker-at-adacore.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GDB 13.2 released!
  94. 2023-05-26 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Join us for today's Long Table with David
  95. 2023-05-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Blue Ribbon Panel
  96. 2023-05-29 From: "American Numismatic Society" <membership-at-numismatics.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?This_week_at_the_ANS=E2=80=94June_2?=
  97. 2023-05-29 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #618 - Conference Season?
  98. 2023-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: One Year MBA in HC,
  99. 2023-05-31 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Weaponing the Justice system continues | |
  100. 2023-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Weaponing the Justice system continues | |
  101. 2023-05-31 From: "Chaim Desser" <info-at-poelgroupstaffing.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] current positions to fill

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