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DATE 2003-05-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2003-05-28
FROM Michael Richardson
SUBJECT RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop

Evan as I said before I am not discussing the merits of any product. What I
am trying to impress upon those who create, upgrade, and promote GNU/Linux
is to stop saying that it is not ready for the desktop. When you say it is
not ready people will go elseware and not come back. If you wish to point
out what you think are flaws please do so. BUT LET THE PERSONS
(CORPORATIONS) WHO WILL USE THE PRODUCT DECIDE WHETHER IT WILL DO WHAT THEY
WANT.

I will add this IF YOU WAIT TO HAVE THE PERFECT PRODUCT BEFORE SELLING IT
YOU WILL NEVER SELL IT.

-----Original Message-----
From: Inker, Evan [mailto:EInker-at-gam.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:32 PM
To: 'Marco Scoffier'
Cc: 'hangout -at- nylxs . com'
Subject: RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the
Des ktop



Marco,

I'm glad you have no problem being placed in the same category as our
Revered Mr. Gates and that integrity is not an issue when delivering a
"solution' to your clients and yes, before I become accused of not having
respect for you and Ruben, I do hold you both in esteem and as fellow IT
Professionals. What you fail to understand and see is what the 'Corporate
World' perceives and as I am not mistaken, I would have a much deeper and
true view of what Corporate is as opposed to yourself and/or Michael and
Ruben. As to MS Business practices and 'living in the gutter', let me just
remind you that the IT Glut that has engulfed the US and World Economies has
released MS, SUN, etc related IT professionals as well as Free Software
professional back into the ranks of Unemployment so please don't infer that
'being better than Bill' makes one live in the squalor. That would be
insulting my intelligence and yours. Without a doubt, the proliferation and
sudden demise of the market by Start-Ups and Dot-Coms as well as the
entrance of new IT Professionals into a collapsing marketplace was a major
factor as well a decline in the World Economy as whole. The only good point,
if there is one, is that MS tried redoing their licensing agreements during
an economic decline and was rightly hosed and slapped down hard for it (With
the exception of 5 Major companies in NYC, no one has upgraded to XP and
most have stayed where they were on 9/11/2001 and MS was forced to re-think
their licensing schemes and maintain support for current OS and Applications
software)

"Microsoft has sold virus prone unstable junk for years marketed as the most
innovative, and most 'must have' product ever to have existed."

Granted. Marketing Hype and BS but very effective. I do not remember
disagreeing on this point, do you?

What you fail to understand is that the Corporate World interacts with other
corporate entities who are not using Free Software (at least not on the
desktop
In this scenario). Corporate Desktops must be able to open MS Word, Excel
and PowerPoint Docs without losing format (mind you, Star Office has come
the closest as per a recent article (as well as I have used it on MS OS and
FreeBSD) but naturally, NYLXS wouldn't use or endorse it because it costs
$$$ and is a proprietary version of OpenOffice) and unless you can
communicate with your clients in a format they can understand and have the
ability to manipulate the data, you are screwed big time. In a small Mom &
Pop office, it really makes no difference but in Corporate USA it makes all
the difference. And please don't suggest plain text, HTML, or XML (In the
future, Yes most definitely this will be the standard but not now..).
Lastly, the 'Cry of the Zealot' does more harm than good. Instead of telling
potential/existing clients "I only will do your entire network with Free
Software" as opposed to "let me show you how I can save you $$$ without
sacrificing and re-working your current infrastructure (aka, if need be Free
Software running on MS OS -or- slipping in a few Linux or BSD Servers to wow
the client and leaving the desktop for the immediate future when you can
convince, not alienate and/or berate the client on his shitty IT Knowledge
or lack of. Wake up and realize that getting one's foot in the door is
better than standing outside in the cold kicking the door...

As for the right to challenge me, please do but be prepared to debate the
merit of your case and not the fact that being slimy and as low as Gates
wins you your ultimate goal of Linux on the Corporate Desktop. I didn't
write the article nor fully agree with the article and its conclusions but
yet fully understand the conception which Major Business has regarding the
Linux Desktop. If that offends you, Ruben, Michael et al, so be it and good
riddance. As for your comment "Get off your ass do something good for the
world", just to recap: I brought Linux, OpenBSD, Apache, Ethereal, TCPDump
and assorted other Free Software into 3 of my Worldwide Offices (and
continue to do so)as well as actively pursuing relationships and providing
literature, Free CDs of Free Software, TCO Studies, and on-site
presentations with 4 different Business Group entities (totaling approx
3000+ Business members) and ongoing Free Software Business Case Seminars
all within the last 5 months. With the possible exception of some fine and
very needed Fair Use activities (which I give total credit to Ruben for
doing a marvelous almost super human job of coordinating and executing
flawlessly, which is no easy feat)
What have you done Marco?

And by your very clear admission earlier (There is no point being 'better
than bill') why should anyone do anything to help the World other than
further their own economic future in a positive fashion.....

Oh, And to clear up one last point, I do use Windows at home (98, 2000, and
XP) as well as Solaris 9, FreeBSD 5.0, OpenBSD 3.3, and ELX and Suse Linux
so I guess that makes me an "Expert" huh

Regards,

Evan aka "The Expert"

-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Scoffier [mailto:marco4linux-at-earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:33 PM
To: Inker, Evan
Cc: 'hangout -at- nylxs . com'
Subject: Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des
ktop


On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 04:49:47PM +0100, Inker, Evan wrote:
>
> So, in essence it makes you a 'software whore' no better than Bill
> Gates. While you should definitely make $$$ on your sweat and effort
> and I agree showing Free Software in its 'true best light', but
> 'lying, cheating, and generally being a scum-bag' are not
> characteristics I would want associated with Free Software....
Well lying cheating and being a scumbag has done nothing to dampen most of
the most powerful companies anywhere.

There is no point being 'better than bill' and living in the gutter.

Microsoft has sold virus prone unstable junk for years marketed as the most
innovative, and most 'must have' product ever to have existed.

If we don't push free software as the most important 'must have' product
today _NOW_ . We will never ever have a significant number of end users and
we will always be at the mercy of bill and co.

'Not ready for the desktop', is like the car salesman saying his car is 'not
ready for the highway' or 'not ready for the open road'.
The sale is killed before it ever started.

Everyone who uses free software primarily has a point when they stop caring
about playing catch-up. I know what I need to do with my computer and how I
can do it sustainably and efficiently using free software. I want to help
others to get to that point.

Doesn't do 'blah blah blah' I don't care I can do 'wizz bang whoopee'. Is an
arguement which runs around in circles.

In my opinion the greatest enemy to free software are the 'experts' who have
'dabled in it'. Installed a server at work, say , but use windows at home.


'Oh _I_ can do it (use free software)', they say.
'But _I_'m an expert', they think.
'Free software is not ready for the desktop', they say.

'You are a dandy, and a dabler. You do nothing by conviction. You treat
the world like a stream of junk on the other end of your remote, try this
zap to that, lets see what's going on over here. You are incapable of
recognizing the difference between a fine hand cooked meal an a microwaved
pile of grease. You are the greatest enemy to free software.'

Michael and Ruben and I are right to challenge you.
Get off your ass do something good for the world.

--
Marco

PS The 'you' in the diatribe is not 'Evan Inker' for whom I have respect,
but the 'expert' discussed above.


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____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
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NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
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Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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  87. 2003-05-30 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [ Speakeasy ] Notice: Network Outage in NYC - Recap
  88. 2003-05-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Class Schedule Changes
  89. 2003-05-30 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Education meeting report soon to come
  90. 2003-05-30 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] CSS issue fixed
  91. 2003-05-29 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Arguments made in DVD-cracking case
  92. 2003-05-29 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Good News for NYLXS
  93. 2003-05-29 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Good News for NYLXS
  94. 2003-05-29 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  95. 2003-05-29 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  96. 2003-05-29 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Good News for NYLXS
  97. 2003-05-29 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Destros needed
  98. 2003-05-29 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Destros needed
  99. 2003-05-29 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Novell's letter to SCO
  100. 2003-05-28 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO's response to Novell
  101. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell's letter to SCO
  102. 2003-05-28 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell's letter to SCO
  103. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell calls on SCO to prove allegations about Linux
  104. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] German software group threatens to sue SCO on Linux
  105. 2003-05-28 Ray Connolly <ray-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC- Tuesday Minutes
  106. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  107. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Agenda for Meeting
  108. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva NYLXS Recording Secretary <selsok-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational committee meeting tomorrow
  109. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Agenda for Meeting
  110. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Agenda for Meeting
  111. 2003-05-28 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  112. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  113. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Need Phone number and Mailing address for NYLXS
  114. 2003-05-28 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Need Phone number and Mailing address for NYLXS
  115. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  116. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  117. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  118. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  119. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  120. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  121. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Need Phone number and Mailing address for NYLXS
  122. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  123. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  124. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  125. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  126. 2003-05-28 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  127. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  128. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  129. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  130. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  131. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Need Phone number and Mailing address for NYLXS
  132. 2003-05-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  133. 2003-05-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Needs replenishing
  134. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  135. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: add RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  136. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> add RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  137. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  138. 2003-05-28 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Destros needed
  139. 2003-05-28 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Destros needed
  140. 2003-05-28 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Desktop
  141. 2003-05-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Possible attacks in Brooklyn this week
  142. 2003-05-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] CSS fun!
  143. 2003-05-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Desktop
  144. 2003-05-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  145. 2003-05-27 From: "'Marco Scoffier'" <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  146. 2003-05-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  147. 2003-05-27 From: "'Marco Scoffier'" <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  148. 2003-05-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des
  149. 2003-05-27 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  150. 2003-05-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  151. 2003-05-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  152. 2003-05-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [mbac-at-netgraft.com: [wwwac] MySQL AB is looking for New York hires]
  153. 2003-05-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des
  154. 2003-05-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] [mbac-at-netgraft.com: [wwwac] MySQL AB is looking for New York hires]
  155. 2003-05-27 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] CSS fun!
  156. 2003-05-27 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] New Yawk Unjacked
  157. 2003-05-27 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Darl McBride Interview
  158. 2003-05-26 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] fscc
  159. 2003-05-26 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  160. 2003-05-26 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  161. 2003-05-26 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] we need nylxser
  162. 2003-05-26 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  163. 2003-05-26 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  164. 2003-05-26 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] we need nylxser
  165. 2003-05-26 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  166. 2003-05-26 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  167. 2003-05-25 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  168. 2003-05-25 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  169. 2003-05-24 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> another word on this Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  170. 2003-05-24 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  171. 2003-05-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  172. 2003-05-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  173. 2003-05-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Some terms I did not know existed.
  174. 2003-05-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] media and fcc on ch 13 now
  175. 2003-05-23 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Evening FSCC Meetings
  176. 2003-05-23 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Why can't they do it here?
  177. 2003-05-23 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Prepare yourself to feel the hate
  178. 2003-05-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] It's not just Microsoft taking advantage of ignorance
  179. 2003-05-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Jamie.Katz-at-Workstreaminc.com: Career Event: Seminar in New York City, May 28th]
  180. 2003-05-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [miker-at-internetmovies.com: [DMCA-Activists] INTERNETMOVIES.COM appeals to U.S. Ninth Circuit Court against MPAA]
  181. 2003-05-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  182. 2003-05-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  183. 2003-05-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  184. 2003-05-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  185. 2003-05-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  186. 2003-05-23 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] God almighty
  187. 2003-05-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Des ktop
  188. 2003-05-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Big Business & World Perceptions - Linux on the Desktop
  189. 2003-05-23 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] The Ulimate Geek-Network Event
  190. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] God almighty
  191. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] mbox_splitter.py
  192. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] More weaseling
  193. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] God almighty
  194. 2003-05-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] God almighty
  195. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  196. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] PR for Classes
  197. 2003-05-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  198. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  199. 2003-05-22 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  200. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Idiocy, or Incompetence?
  201. 2003-05-22 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] PR for Classes small correction
  202. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  203. 2003-05-22 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] PR for Classes
  204. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  205. 2003-05-22 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Correction
  206. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Correction
  207. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] PR for Classes
  208. 2003-05-22 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Education and more read me
  209. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] we need nylxser
  210. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  211. 2003-05-22 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] PR for Classes
  212. 2003-05-22 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Congratulations
  213. 2003-05-22 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Congratulations
  214. 2003-05-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Congratulations
  215. 2003-05-22 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] PR for Classes
  216. 2003-05-22 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] the NYLXS site
  217. 2003-05-22 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] we need nylxser
  218. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Crains NY for PR
  219. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] LaGuardia FS Business Demo
  220. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Education and more read me
  221. 2003-05-21 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Education and more read me
  222. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Education and more read me
  223. 2003-05-21 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Cartoons
  224. 2003-05-21 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Education and more read me
  225. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Education and more read me
  226. 2003-05-21 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Education and more read me
  227. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLUG Meeting tonight
  228. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylxs-announce] It's more than an Installfeast!
  229. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] It's more than an Installfeast!
  230. 2003-05-21 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] It's more than an Installfeast!
  231. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] It's more than an Installfeast!
  232. 2003-05-21 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] It's more than an Installfeast!
  233. 2003-05-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] It's more than an Installfeast!
  234. 2003-05-20 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  235. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  236. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Re: Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: A thought]
  237. 2003-05-20 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  238. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  239. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  240. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: A thought]
  241. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Fwd: Re: A thought]
  242. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: Re: A thought]
  243. 2003-05-20 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: A thought
  244. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FS Classes start tonight
  245. 2003-05-20 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] FS Classes start tonight
  246. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  247. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  248. 2003-05-20 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  249. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FS Classes start tonight
  250. 2003-05-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  251. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FS Classes start tonight
  252. 2003-05-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  253. 2003-05-20 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  254. 2003-05-20 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM to sell Linux Biz desktops
  255. 2003-05-20 Ray Connolly <ray-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  256. 2003-05-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Some Encouraging News from Abroad...
  257. 2003-05-20 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Wording: Free Software Classes
  258. 2003-05-20 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Wording: Free Software Classes
  259. 2003-05-20 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  260. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  261. 2003-05-20 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Brought to you by:
  262. 2003-05-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Tech Commitee Meeting
  263. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: A thought
  264. 2003-05-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  265. 2003-05-19 joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com Subject: [hangout] Wireless Broad Band Security
  266. 2003-05-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Linux 1 Class
  267. 2003-05-19 Ray Connolly <ray-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC Meeting
  268. 2003-05-19 bruce-at-perens.com (Bruce Perens) Subject: [hangout] Re: A thought
  269. 2003-05-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Linux 1 Class
  270. 2003-05-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Tech Commitee Meeting
  271. 2003-05-19 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux 1 Class
  272. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] A thought
  273. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] For some of us, it was already clear...
  274. 2003-05-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Flyers for Classes
  275. 2003-05-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] egovos 3
  276. 2003-05-19 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] egovos 3
  277. 2003-05-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Alt schools demo
  278. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> RE: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  279. 2003-05-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: Alt schools demo
  280. 2003-05-19 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Microsoft to license Unix code
  281. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Federal Solution
  282. 2003-05-19 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Alt schools demo
  283. 2003-05-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Microsoft to license Unix code
  284. 2003-05-19 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Microsoft to license Unix code
  285. 2003-05-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Tech Commitee Meeting
  286. 2003-05-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  287. 2003-05-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] Desktop Linux Ready to Roll Over Windows] (fwd)
  288. 2003-05-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] Desktop Linux Ready to Roll Over Windows] (fwd)
  289. 2003-05-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  290. 2003-05-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [wwwac] Desktop Linux Ready to Roll Over Windows] (fwd)
  291. 2003-05-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  292. 2003-05-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  293. 2003-05-18 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  294. 2003-05-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] irc security news and the law
  295. 2003-05-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] DVD Software takes a legal blow vs DMCA
  296. 2003-05-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So how did it go?
  297. 2003-05-17 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO Petition
  298. 2003-05-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Comuters Work Reguations from the Dept of Labor
  299. 2003-05-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] baby is comming
  300. 2003-05-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] the things i have
  301. 2003-05-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] links to edu stuff
  302. 2003-05-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] baby comming
  303. 2003-05-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  304. 2003-05-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  305. 2003-05-16 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] These are some articals
  306. 2003-05-16 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  307. 2003-05-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  308. 2003-05-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  309. 2003-05-16 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] found 3rd artical
  310. 2003-05-16 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] found another one that proves computers don't work in schools
  311. 2003-05-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting Tomorrow
  312. 2003-05-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] class flyers
  313. 2003-05-16 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO is full of it...
  314. 2003-05-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] class flyers
  315. 2003-05-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] class flyers
  316. 2003-05-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] class flyers
  317. 2003-05-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] updated flyers for may-june classes
  318. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  319. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 7.1 dropped from support
  320. 2003-05-15 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Ballmer on Linux
  321. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] More details for sat.
  322. 2003-05-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: alt-tech seminar talks
  323. 2003-05-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS AT THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE (fwd)
  324. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] alt-tech seminar talks
  325. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Edited and Proofed after discussing with Marco NYLXS AT THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE (fwd)
  326. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  327. 2003-05-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Edited and Proofed after discussing with Marco NYLXS AT THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE (fwd)
  328. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  329. 2003-05-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Edited and Proofed after discussing with Marco NYLXS AT THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE
  330. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Flyers
  331. 2003-05-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  332. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  333. 2003-05-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  334. 2003-05-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Flyers
  335. 2003-05-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  336. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] you can get tha address from this link
  337. 2003-05-15 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] you can get tha address from this link
  338. 2003-05-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Up to No-Good Again!
  339. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  340. 2003-05-15 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  341. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: We got into the THE ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE as A Exhibtor
  342. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Classes - Registration Form -
  343. 2003-05-15 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Announcement
  344. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [ANN] Novusweb Creates Innovative Cooperative - Seeks Talented Web Specialists [bill-at-blueworld.com]
  345. 2003-05-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Announcement
  346. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Ebay Scam you should be aware of
  347. 2003-05-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] For future reference
  348. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SCO warns commercial Linux users of potential 'legal liability'
  349. 2003-05-14 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] SCO warns commercial Linux users of potential 'legal liability'
  350. 2003-05-14 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] SCO's Letter to Linux Users/Customers
  351. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SCO's Letter to Linux Users/Customers
  352. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SCO warns commercial Linux users of potential 'legal liability'
  353. 2003-05-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO's Letter to Linux Users/Customers
  354. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Subway Fare scaled Back Again!
  355. 2003-05-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO warns commercial Linux users of potential 'legal liability'
  356. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS webserver suggestion: MIME [Was: funny flyer penguin rides GNU]
  357. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS webserver suggestion: MIME [Was: funny flyer penguin rides GNU]
  358. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS webserver suggestion: MIME [Was: funny flyer penguin rides GNU]
  359. 2003-05-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Linux In education Needs YOU
  360. 2003-05-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS webserver suggestion: MIME [Was: funny flyer penguin rides GNU]
  361. 2003-05-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  362. 2003-05-14 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [hangout] Linux In education Needs YOU
  363. 2003-05-14 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Linux In education Needs YOU
  364. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  365. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  366. 2003-05-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  367. 2003-05-14 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  368. 2003-05-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] funny flyer penguin rides GNU
  369. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] What do I put here?
  370. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Can you email the NYLUG List
  371. 2003-05-14 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Can you email the NYLUG List
  372. 2003-05-14 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] The Matrix Reloaded
  373. 2003-05-14 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux In education Needs YOU
  374. 2003-05-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Headline - When copy protection backfires
  375. 2003-05-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] looking at headers - ignor
  376. 2003-05-20 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-bxscience.edu> Re: [hangout] Alt schools demo
  377. 2003-05-19 Ray Connolly <ray-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] hello again
  378. 2003-05-01 NYLUG NYLUG <nylug-at-mrbrklyn.com>
  379. 2003-05-01 NYLUG NYLUG <nylug-at-mrbrklyn.com>
  380. 2003-05-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [!CrackMonkey!] The Eric Aldred Act]

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