|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
|From lestw-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Wed Jul 22 19:31:09 2009
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:31:05 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
References: <20090722013543.GA29597-at-panix.com> <561596.64973.qm-at-web38008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 07:52:37AM -0700, Elfen Magix wrote:
> Notice- Brooke is a woman.
> Woman can be as worthless as mothers as some men are worthless as fathers.
> In fact, it is the actions of mothers that forces men to be worthless fathers to begin with- something that she does not mention at all.
Tell me about it. The worse thing for children is their divorced mother.
> --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Ruben Safir wrote:
> From: Ruben Safir
> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
> To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 9:35 PM
> Fathers & Families on CBS/HuffPost: ?Do Men Become Better or Worse
> Fathers After Divorce?? July 20th, 2009 by Glenn Sacks, MA, Executive
> Author Jill Brooke helped craft a CBS Early Show segment and wrote
> an article on the issue of fathering after divorce. Two Fathers &
> Families supporters and I are quoted in the article. I helped Brooke
> with some research and briefly appeared in the CBS segment.
> Brooke?s article is Do Men Become Better or Worse Fathers After
> Divorce? (Huffington Post, 7/17/09).
> Brooke?s thesis is, as professor Don Gordon explains, ?When a father
> is away from the stress of a failed marriage, he can be more relaxed
> and more reflective and as a result enjoy being more fully involved
> with his children.?
> She quotes CNBC anchor Dennis Kneale, who says divorce has made
> him ?vastly closer ? to his 9-year-old daughter Jing-Jing:
> ? ? In many families, mom is the center of everything and the
> ? ? husband is the supporting player. But with divorce, I have had
> ? ? more one on one time with her in ways I never did before.
> This can certainly be true, and some father-child relationships do
> improve after divorce. As a general rule, however, divorce is often
> what drives fathers and kids apart.
> Brooke writes:
> ? ? Technology has also helped prevent or reduce what is called
> ? ? parental alienation where in the past the residential parent
> ? ? may - consciously or unconsciously - block contact either out
> ? ? of her resentment towards the father or because she has remarried
> ? ? and is protecting the stepfather relationship.
> ? ? A study by J. Annette Vanini and Edward Nichols found that 77
> ? ? percent of noncustodial fathers faced some form of visitation
> ? ? interference.
> ? ? But now fathers can give their kids pre-paid cell phones to
> ? ? insure contact. Divorce contracts are also often written to
> ? ? permit contact through email accounts.
> ? ? Ted Rubin, a Huntington Long Island divorced dad to two girls,
> ? ? admits to using Facebook to keep in contact with his kids.
> ? ? ?Sometimes when we speak on the phone I can tell if Mom is
> ? ? standing there and then later my daughter will contact me on
> ? ? Facebook,? he said. ?A lot of Dads complain that moms could
> ? ? stand in the way of communication but now it?s almost impossible
> ? ? because kids are so tech savvy.?
> ? ? In fact, Rubin, who has a contentious divorce with his ex-wife,
> ? ? says that email helps divorced parents diminish ?the nastiness
> ? ? is our dialogues? which the kids would overhear on the phone.
> ? ? Now he can email what time he?s picking up the kids and delivering
> ? ? them without any verbal warfare??
> ? ? [R]esearch shows that the kids do like it when both parents
> ? ? are present.
> ? ? ?They have fewer behavior and emotional problems, higher
> ? ? self-esteem and better school performance than children in sole
> ? ? custody arrangements,? said Glenn Sacks, the National Executive
> ? ? Director of Fathers & Families. ?When researchers have examined
> ? ? children of divorce, and studied and queried adult children of
> ? ? divorce, they?ve found that most prefer joint custody and shared
> ? ? parenting.?
> ? ? For example, in one Arizona State University study of college
> ? ? students who experienced their parents? divorces while they
> ? ? were children, over two-thirds believe that living equal times
> ? ? with each parent is the best arrangement. A Harvard University
> ? ? study also confirmed that children in joint custody settings
> ? ? fared much better than kids living in sole custody households.
> ? ? While many men acknowledge progress, some still complain that
> ? ? the system treats fathers as second-class citizens when asking
> ? ? for more time with their children.
> ? ? As Gary Nicholson, the president of the American Association
> ? ? of Marital Attorneys, explains, part of the problem is that
> ? ? various state laws tie child support payments to the amount of
> ? ? time a father is with their child. Payments can be adjusted if
> ? ? the father spends as much as 100 nights with his child so many
> ? ? mothers resist giving 50-50 splits and are angered by the
> ? ? request.
> ? ? Said Nicholson, ?Are there folks who look at this economically
> ? ? and think if I have equal time I won?t have to pay as much
> ? ? child support? Yes. But the majority of dads want to be involved
> ? ? in their kid?s lives. They feel they should be equal partners.?
> Brook begins the piece by writing:
> ? ? If divorce is in the future of duplicitous two-timers Gov. Mark
> ? ? Sanford to reality TV?s Jon Gosselin, these men will have to
> ? ? navigate co-parenting. However, a growing trend shows that many
> ? ? men become better parents post-divorce, to the surprise of
> ? ? ex-wives who find it difficult to grasp that a man who wasn?t
> ? ? a good husband can indeed be a good father.
> One, comparing the average divorced dad to these two is like
> comparing the average married woman to the conniving, spoiled,
> manipulative women of Desperate Housewives?it?s hardly an accurate
> generalization. (I would also add that Gosselin?s wife Kate supposedly
> was cheating on him with her bodyguard?some back up that story
> while others say Gosselin began these rumors. I?d delve into it in
> greater detail but my interest in the subject wouldn?t warrant it.)
> Two, the line ?ex-wives who find it difficult to grasp that a man
> who wasn?t a good husband can indeed be a good father? and some of
> the lines in the CBS segment imply that when women decide to divorce
> their husbands, that means that they weren?t good husbands. While
> sometimes that is the case, it is at least as common for women to
> divorce their husbands because they?re too damn critical of them.
> In my Chicago Tribune column Men Blamed for Marriage Decline but
> Women?s Relationship Wounds Often Self-Inflicted (1/21/07) I wrote:
> ? ? To what, then, do we attribute women?s discontent with marriage
> ? ? and relationships, and the fact that they initiate the vast
> ? ? majority of divorces? A new Woman?s Day magazine poll found
> ? ? that 56% of married women would not or might not marry their
> ? ? husbands if they could choose again?why?
> ? ? Nobody would dispute that, in selecting a mate, women are more
> ? ? discerning than men. This is an evolutionary necessity?a woman
> ? ? must carefully evaluate who is likely to remain loyal to her
> ? ? and protect and provide for her and her children. If a man and
> ? ? a woman go on a blind date and don?t hit it off, the man will
> ? ? shrug and say ?it went OK.? The woman will give five reasons
> ? ? why he?s not right for her.
> ? ? A woman?s discerning, critical nature doesn?t disappear on her
> ? ? wedding day. Most marital problems and marriage counseling
> ? ? sessions revolve around why the wife is unhappy with her husband,
> ? ? even though they could just as easily be about why the husband
> ? ? is unhappy with the wife. In this common pre-divorce scenario
> ? ? there are only two possibilities-either she?s a great wife and
> ? ? he?s a lousy husband, or she?s far more critical of him than
> ? ? he is of her. Usually it?s the latter??
> ? ? Yes, there are some men who make poor mates, but not nearly
> ? ? enough to account for the divorce epidemic and the decline of
> ? ? marriage. While it?s easy and popular to blame men, many of
> ? ? the wounds women bear from failed relationships and loneliness
> ? ? are self-inflicted.
> A biblical saying is also applicable:
> ? ? Why do you observe the splinter in your brother?s eye and never
> ? ? notice the great log in your own? (Luke 6:41)
> Brooke writes:
> ? ? Take the example of Peter Giles. When Peter Giles? three
> ? ? daughters were toddlers, work consumed him at the expense of
> ? ? family life. The New York businessman would justify the absences
> ? ? as doing the right thing for his family since he was providing
> ? ? the financial womb while his wife was taking care of their
> ? ? other needs.
> ? ? What finally made him a better father? Getting a divorce.
> ? ? ?The divorce was such a shock and forced me to take stock of
> ? ? who I was and what success should look like,? said Giles, whose
> ? ? ex-wife Nancy Claus sought a divorce in 2001. ?I came to realize
> ? ? that I had been providing for my children but needed to be more
> ? ? to them. ?
> ? ? Like the majority of divorcing men today, Giles sought joint
> ? ? legal custody, which courts are more willing to grant since a
> ? ? federal study shows that men paid child support 90 percent of
> ? ? the time in comparison to less than 45 percent when the mother
> ? ? had sole custody.
> ? ? When his daughters visited, Giles morphed into a multi-tasker
> ? ? taking on chores previously done by his wife including cooking,
> ? ? buying cosmetics and remembering to buy eggs and bacon at the
> ? ? market.
> ? ? ?I wish he would have been as involved and helpful when we were
> ? ? married,? said Claus. ?But he has definitely become a much
> ? ? better Dad after our divorce.?
> This seems rather unfair and condescending?Giles was sacrificing
> for his family when he worked long hours, and his ability to earn
> a good income was doubtless a substantial part of why his ex-wife
> decided to marry him to begin with. Like many men, his divorce came
> to him as a surprise. In don?t know what else happened between
> them, but it seems his ex-wife may have decided to break up the
> family because she was unhappy with decisions that she herself
> played a large role in crafting.
> His ex says, ?I wish he would have been as involved and helpful
> when we were married.? This may be true, but I would add that I?m
> sure she found his good income very ?helpful? too.
> The article doesn?t say what the Giles? custody arrangement is now,
> and the article refers to his daughters ?visiting.? If they do have
> real joint custody?not the piece of paper which says ?joint custody?
> but allows dad only a few days a month with his children, but real
> joint custody, meaning substantially equal parenting time?then
> Giles? ex-wife is to be commended.
> There?s a lot of pressure in society to deny the harm caused by
> divorce and fatherlessness. The reason is that most divorces are
> initiated by women, and most of these are not due to serious
> infractions like adultery and abuse. Some divorced fathers have
> brought their problems on themselves, but many others were perfectly
> good husband and fathers. Brooke doesn?t say this and probably
> doesn?t believe it, but, de-stigmatizing divorce and depicting
> divorce as OK (or better) for kids is often a way to greenlight
> women to make these damaging choices.
> Fathers & Families supporters David Gestl and Eric Ryerson are also
> quoted in the story. To read Brooke?s full piece, click here. To
> comment on it, click here and scroll down.? Bookmark This Post: