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DATE 2009-07-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2009-07-27
FROM Joshua Zeidner
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
From lestw-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Mon Jul 27 21:22:13 2009
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:22:02 -0700
Message-ID: <9e8718c60907271822k6efbd86bh3f40acb6b5511c2f-at-mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
advocacy
From: Joshua Zeidner
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
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Reply-To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com

anyone hear this latest anti-OSS management mantra?

"Open Source: free as in kittens."

-jmz


On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Contrarian wrote:
>
> The text at the link I just sent
>
> Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source advocacy
>
>   by Rick Moen
>
>   If anyone is qualified to tell us how to effectively lobby for the
>   wider adoption of open-source software, it's Eric S. Raymond. After
>   being propelled -- much to his surprise -- to sudden global prominence
>   in 1998 through his involvement in inspiring and launching the Mozilla
>   Project, Raymond found himself the de facto spokesman for an entire
>   movement, observed that he was fairly good about it, and so set about
>   explaining how and why. He briefed a large audience at the recent
>   LinuxWorld Conference & Expo on these happenings, and on how the rest
>   of us might do likewise, in a talk entitled "Meme Hacking for Fun and
>   Profit."
>
>   Eric's first step was to figure out why the 1998 effort suddenly
>   worked, making business interested in our community's software model,
>   after nearly two decades of entirely futile attempts. It wasn't easy.
>
>   In May of 1997, Eric published an essay, "The Cathedral and the
>   Bazaar" (CatB), explaining his theories of how free software (the only
>   term for it, then) gets created, and why the process creates such good
>   software so quickly, based on his experience managing a piece of
>   utility software called Fetchmail (see Resources). This
>   socio-technical analysis, while written to be accessible to a
>   nontechnical audience, succeeded only in generating acclaim among
>   propeller-beanie Linux users -- preaching to the choir. Eric remained
>   better known as Guy Steele's successor in editing the MIT Jargon File,
>   one of the cornerstones of "hackish" (computer programmer) culture,
>   and as mastermind of the shadowy, tongue-in-cheek (or so They would
>   have us think) Eric Conspiracy -- until January 23, 1998.
>
>   That morning, Eric received an emailed tip from a friend, suggesting
>   he look at the prior day's announcement from Netscape, and cryptically
>   commenting "I think someone's been reading your paper." And so Eric
>   did -- and was thunderstruck by the fact that a major corporation
>   seemed to be implementing his software-management ideas. Indeed, many
>   parts of the announcement seemed to be quoting CatB directly.
>
>   He cold-called Netscape Communications Corporation's main telephone
>   number, working through a bureaucratic maze for fifteen minutes,
>   seeming to reach a dead end at a voicemail mailbox. His bewildered
>   message went something like, "Hello, my name is Eric Raymond, and I
>   think I had something to do with your announcement. Could somebody
>   please call me?" Within the hour, Roseanne Cino of Netscape Marketing
>   called back, saying, "Yes, all of our top people read your paper and
>   loved it. Jim Barksdale is giving your name to the national press, and
>   wants to meet you."
>
>   As Eric says, "This was the moment of vindication our tribe had been
>   waiting for for twenty years." During all that time, the
>   technical/Unix community had received essentially nothing but
>   brushoffs, being considered impractical freaks in sandals, even though
>   it offered clearly better technology. It was clear that the problem
>   was not one of substance, but of perception, and Eric saw that Mozilla
>   was our key to changing that.
>
>   We'd never had a success before, and a procedural analysis of the
>   traditional Unix evangelism strategy, typically carried out by
>   software engineers within their own companies, showed why. In a such a
>   situation, you typically would:
>    1. Become excited by some great technology, and become impressed by
>       its potential to change the world for the better.
>    2. Talk it up to your peers.
>    3. Join your peers in approaching the next level of management,
>       trying to get them excited, and hope that the excitement trickles
>       upward until it reaches the top and changes company policies.
>    4. Sit back and wait for the people at the top to clap their hands to
>       their foreheads, and exclaim in a sudden burst of enlightenment,
>       "Gosh, we were wrong all along! But we'll change our fundamental
>       policies and fix everything!"
>
>   Enlightenment doesn't flow uphill
>
>   Of course, real authority hierarchies don't work that way. Instead,
>   you have, in rough terms, three strata.
>     * Decision-makers inhabit the top of the hierarchy.
>     * Below them are the middle managers, whose job is to be conservers
>       of organisational stability. When asked to change company
>       policies, their job is to say "no."
>     * At the bottom are the implementers. This is where dwell the
>       Unix-loving engineering staff.
>
>   The traditional strategy fails because it hits the purposely
>   granite-hard wall of middle management, and advocates of open source
>   software will wait until Doomsday trying to work past them. And until
>   1998, that's exactly what they were doing.
>
>   Mozilla gave us an example to point to, but also material to learn
>   from: in that case, enlightenment did not trickle up from below. One
>   guy at the top (Jim Clark) encountered a persuasive essay, had a
>   moment of enlightenment, and enforced his new vision on everyone
>   beneath him.
>
>   Clark was convinced, not by moral suasion, but by CatB's pragmatic
>   analysis showing why free software yielded shorter time to delivery,
>   better code quality, and lower costs.
>
>   Ambassador to the suits
>
>   Eric could see that the Mozilla code release would be a crucial
>   moment, which could yield any of several alternative outcomes:
>     * Mozilla could succeed, demonstrating open source's benefits.
>     * Mozilla could succeed, but in a way that made it appear to be a
>       one-time, freak case.
>     * Mozilla might be perceived as having failed, and then become the
>       standard reason cited in business circles for not trying again.
>
>   He decided that he could help ensure the first outcome by working out
>   a credible, coherent explanation of the open source model and its
>   benefits that would be amenable to the right sort of audience. That
>   target audience would be precisely the one ignored by prior advocates:
>   Fortune 500 chief executive officers.
>
>   This is easier said than done. As Eric puts it, "Most of us don't play
>   golf with Jack Welsh [longtime CEO of General Electric]. We need some
>   other way to slip our LSD in their water supply."
>
>   Thus, Eric figured, our best bet is a media-centered campaign aimed at
>   Fortune 500 CEOs. It might seem at first glance that entrepreneurs
>   would be a better bet, but the Fortune 500 are the biggest, most
>   influential market that can be reached by a single marketing campaign.
>   He decided to concentrate exclusively on the following news outlets:
>   the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Barron's, and the
>   Economist.
>
>   This list pointedly excludes technical journals, since the people we
>   need to reach don't read them, but leave that task to underlings. Eric
>   cited what he called Rule Number One of Marketing: "Appeal to the
>   prospect's interests and values, not to yours." If the smarter, more
>   forward-looking CEOs were convinced to come aboard, the others would
>   tend to follow.
>
>   The sales pitch
>
>   The term "open source," coined by Chris Peterson of the Foresight
>   Institute at a strategy session Eric attended in February 1998 after
>   the Netscape announcement, followed naturally from this logic. Eric
>   feels that the traditional term, "free software," had been a millstone
>   around all of our necks, and was simply a nonstarter as rhetoric to
>   convince any but the hard-core believers. From the businessman's
>   perspective, "free software" sounds at best ambiguous, or possibly
>   even threatening: you must explain which meaning of "free" you intend
>   (free as in speech, rather than free as in beer), and then clarify
>   what free speech has to do with software. Your audience might react,
>   "Free? That sounds cheap, shoddy." Or, worse, "Free? That sounds like
>   communism."
>
>   It's much more effective to sell the concept on the basis of
>   reliability, instead. Big corporations lose millions of dollars per
>   hour when their datacenters go down. Executives are keenly interested
>   in avoiding that.
>
>   Also, even concerning their desktop boxes, executives are aware of the
>   money drain. Mean time before failure (MTBF) of Windows 9x is less
>   than a week. As an installation ages, that shrinks to less than a day.
>   With Linux, a box left alone has MTBF of around two years.
>
>   Your winning points will be:
>     * Total cost of ownership (TCO)
>     * Insulation from risk and loss of control
>
>   An executive who allows his company to becomes dependent on software
>   he is not allowed to see inside, let alone change, has lost control of
>   his business, and is on the wrong side of a monopoly relationship with
>   a vendor who can thereby control his business. With open source, the
>   executive is in control, and nobody can take that away. The
>   opportunity to reduce and control business risk is a key concern of
>   any CEO. You'll be listened to.
>
>   Eric warned that none of this will work without purging one's mind of
>   the common techophile's notion that business people are stupid. Eric
>   characterised them as "differently optimised," and said that we should
>   respect them for their specialty. For one thing, you cannot sell to
>   people if you project an attitude of disrespect. Even if you don't
>   express it explicitly, it will come through in body language,
>   intonation, and other subtle aspects of your demeanour.
>
>   Of course, it probably seems reckless to approach one's company CEO
>   and advocate changing company policies, and it may well be so. It's
>   usually more successful to work on other people's organisations, since
>   companies seem oddly resistant to listening to their own technical
>   people. Also, partially because most executives will be less inclined
>   than Jim Clark to read long essays on the Web, Eric has published "The
>   Cathedral and the Bazaar" as part of a book of the same name,
>   available from O'Reilly, suitable for leaving as anonymous gifts on
>   executive desks.
>
>   Dress to persuade
>
>   Eric himself tries to adopt the Prince from Another Country stance, a
>   term coined by science-fiction writer Norman Spinrad to describe his
>   technique for being accepted in multiple communities: You adopt the
>   attitude of being a high-ranking member of a different hierarchy,
>   which gets you respect without subjecting you to hierarchical
>   obligations. Thus, when Spinrad was trying to gain respect in
>   Hollywood as a scriptwriter, he conducted himself as a respected
>   science fiction author. Conversely, in the science fiction community,
>   he billed himself as a leading Hollywood scriptwriter.
>
>   Following in the same mold, Eric dresses well but casually, and
>   donates his time as a speaker on open source, rather than billing it
>   as consulting time. Dressing "well" includes good shoes, meaning, in
>   Eric's case, $90 Rockport walking shoes rather than beat-up Reeboks.
>   He generally combines these with a neat polo shirt and slacks.
>
>   Don't dress like a hacker, Eric warns. Dress the way hackers do in the
>   movies. You want to look like a credible, respected member of a
>   foreign social system to an audience of executives who've never come
>   closer to a real hacker than a Sandra Bullock movie. Therefore,
>   "Birkenstocks are right out!"
>
>   Even worse than underdressing, as a strategy for being credible to
>   executives, would be overdressing. A technology advocate dressed in a
>   business suit would tend to come across as a bad imitation of a
>   business person -- and thus a person to ignore. It's far safer to
>   stick to neat, good-fabric casual wear.
>
>   Amy Abascal, head of the Web development team at VA Linux Systems,
>   interjected, "But what should the technical woman wear?" I had a brief
>   moment of lurid anticipation that Eric might recommend that she
>   emulate Carrie-Anne Moss. The daydream passed, and Eric quite rightly
>   pointed out that the high-quality black casual wear Amy was wearing
>   would serve perfectly.
>
>   Local Linux user and magazine columnist Mae Ling Mak shouted out, "But
>   what about me?" Eric gazed at Mae Ling's black vinyl cheongsam and
>   replied, "Mae Ling, you're a law unto yourself. Never change a thing."
>
>   The other sales front
>
>   Eric anticipated that his other task would be equally tough:
>   convincing free-software advocates to change their rhetoric when
>   speaking to business. The Open Source Initiative was founded in
>   February 1998 towards that end, with Eric and fellow OSI director
>   Bruce Perens advocating the new approach among traditional
>   free-software advocates.
>
>   To their utter astonishment, they observed 85 percent of the community
>   switching the wording on its Web sites within six weeks, suggesting
>   pent-up demand in the community for a more effective, less
>   confrontational approach. Some organs of the press that used to carry
>   what Eric termed "condescending, snarky pieces about free software"
>   fell over themselves to speak glowingly of open source.
>
>   Talking to the press
>
>   Eric's strategy for getting his views across in the press ("press
>   manipulation," he freely admits) relies on knowing that most people
>   are asleep most of the time. It's impossible to keep your audience
>   awake. Therefore, you keep a good stock of attention-getting sound
>   bites in reserve, and zap the reporter with them at well-spaced
>   intervals. The theory, which Eric claims works quite reliably, is that
>   the reporter will remember the sound bites, reproducing them as the
>   backbone of his coverage, and discard the parts he half-dozed through.
>   (This reporter found the suggestion about as annoying as the wrist
>   cramp from his nine pages of lecture notes, but concedes the point may
>   be more correct than not. Eric stoked some of our egos a bit by saying
>   that technology reporters tended to be way ahead of that curve on
>   account of the same hackish traits that got them into that field in
>   the first place. Sorry, no kind words for technology readers.)
>
>   The other side of the coin
>
>   One member of the audience asked how corporations should approach
>   relations with the open source community. It's the same problem as
>   before, just from the other side: "Appeal to the prospect's interests
>   and values, not to yours." Once more, if anyone is qualified to
>   address this point, it's Eric.
>     * Never lie to geeks. They take it seriously. Most general members
>       of the public expect casual prevarication and evasion, but
>       technical activists notice it and are offended.
>     * Respect community customs. In particular, respect the community's
>       software licences. Don't write your own and expect to be greeted
>       with open arms.
>     * Value your own internal experts. The community doesn't like
>       dealing with faceless organisations, and prefers one-on-one
>       "horizontal" dealings with individuals. Therefore, identify your
>       own people who are likely contacts with the community -- who may
>       already be part of it without your being aware of it -- and
>       burnish their presence and potential as spokespersons.
>     * Give the community members toys; you'll make them happy.
>
>   But seriously, folks
>
>   As a bit of parting advice, Eric suggested that the most valuable
>   skill to pick up is that of effective public speaking. There are a
>   variety of groups that aim to teach it, but Eric found his model in
>   what at first might seem an unlikely place: stand-up comedy, which he
>   says can be effectively studied for tips on timing, punctuation, and
>   body language, among other things.
>
>   Eric is an animated and extroverted speaker, with a flair for reaching
>   out to audiences, and a whimsical sense of fun -- but conceptualising
>   him as a Robin Williams or Mike Myers puts him in a new light.
>
>   Me: Maybe I'd be a reporter.
>   Eric: An evil reporter?
>   Me: You always do that!
>
>   Resources
>     * The Fetchmail utility:
>       http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/fetchmail/
>     * "The Cathedral and the Bazaar," Eric S. Raymond:
>       http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
>     * The Jargon File, aka the New Hacker's Dictionary:
>       http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/
>     * Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs:
>       http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/ecsl/
>     * Netscape's announcement of the planned source code release:
>       http://home.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html
>     * The Cathedral and the Bazaar: Musings on Linux and Open Source by
>       an Accidental Revolutionary, Eric S. Raymond (O'Reilly and
>       Associates, 1999):
>       http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cb/
>
>   Rick Moen is a recovering system administrator in the San Francisco
>   Bay Area, who served as primary Bay Area organiser for Windows Refund
>   Day, and has been one of the main troublemakers behind Silicon Valley
>   Linux User Group's Silicon Valley Tea Party, the Great Linux Revolt of
>   '98, and other Bay Area Linux PR events.
>     _________________________________________________________________
>
>   Copyright (C) 2000 by Rick Moen, rick-at-linuxmafia.com.
>   Article first appeared in LinuxWorld.com
>

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  7. 2009-07-07 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  8. 2009-07-07 From: "Tameek" <tameek-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cannon Rebel XT For Sale - Broken PC
  9. 2009-07-07 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  10. 2009-07-07 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  11. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  12. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cannon Rebel XT For Sale - Broken PC
  13. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  14. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cannon Rebel XT For Sale - Broken PC
  15. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  16. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  17. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  18. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  19. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  20. 2009-07-08 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  21. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  22. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  23. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  24. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  25. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  26. 2009-07-08 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  27. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  28. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  29. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  30. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  31. 2009-07-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  32. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  33. 2009-07-08 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  34. 2009-07-08 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  35. 2009-07-09 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  36. 2009-07-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet radio
  37. 2009-07-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Events -
  38. 2009-07-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Events -
  39. 2009-07-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] TRS-80
  40. 2009-07-14 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl Toe jam
  41. 2009-07-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl Toe jam
  42. 2009-07-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl Toe jam
  43. 2009-07-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  44. 2009-07-20 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  45. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] LINUX INSTALLFEST! Saturday, August 1st, Bug Labs
  46. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  47. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  48. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Big Brother is Watching
  49. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Don't Believe it : RIAA - DRM is dead
  50. 2009-07-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  51. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  52. 2009-07-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  53. 2009-07-20 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  54. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  55. 2009-07-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  56. 2009-07-20 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  57. 2009-07-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  58. 2009-07-20 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  59. 2009-07-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  60. 2009-07-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  61. 2009-07-21 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Strange News this week
  62. 2009-07-21 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google operating system
  63. 2009-07-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
  64. 2009-07-21 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  65. 2009-07-21 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS
  66. 2009-07-21 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS
  67. 2009-07-22 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  68. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  69. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS
  70. 2009-07-22 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
  71. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  72. 2009-07-22 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  73. 2009-07-22 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  74. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  75. 2009-07-22 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS
  76. 2009-07-22 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  77. 2009-07-22 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  78. 2009-07-22 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  79. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  80. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (Ruben) sender change
  81. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Agenda -
  82. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthless Dads
  83. 2009-07-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Blue Ray DRM
  84. 2009-07-22 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS
  85. 2009-07-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MEETING TONIGHT
  86. 2009-07-23 mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MEETING TONIGHT
  87. 2009-07-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MEETING TONIGHT
  88. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Upcoming Scheduling and Projects
  89. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  90. 2009-07-24 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  91. 2009-07-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  92. 2009-07-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  93. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad Week For Jews
  94. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  95. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  96. 2009-07-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  97. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  98. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  99. 2009-07-24 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  100. 2009-07-24 From: "Beau Gould \(OSS\)" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  101. 2009-07-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  102. 2009-07-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Building a Better Mouse Trap
  103. 2009-07-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Upcoming Scheduling and Projects
  104. 2009-07-26 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Building a Better Mouse Trap
  105. 2009-07-26 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  106. 2009-07-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Building a Better Mouse Trap
  107. 2009-07-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS to purchase Google for 3.5 Billion
  108. 2009-07-26 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Building a Better Mouse Trap
  109. 2009-07-26 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] closest I have found to an ESR Linux conference article
  110. 2009-07-26 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source advocacy
  111. 2009-07-26 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best comments on the Gates (Harvard) affair I've seen
  112. 2009-07-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  113. 2009-07-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open
  114. 2009-07-27 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  115. 2009-07-27 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  116. 2009-07-27 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  117. 2009-07-27 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  118. 2009-07-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  119. 2009-07-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  120. 2009-07-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  121. 2009-07-27 Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  122. 2009-07-27 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  123. 2009-07-28 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  124. 2009-07-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  125. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Family Free Software Videos
  126. 2009-07-28 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Family Free Software Videos
  127. 2009-07-28 Simon Fondrie-Teitler <simonft-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Family Free Software Videos
  128. 2009-07-28 Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  129. 2009-07-28 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  130. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open
  131. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest in Downtown Brooklyn?
  132. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Some Jewish Spiritual information for those of us of that faith
  133. 2009-07-28 Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source
  134. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  135. 2009-07-28 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  136. 2009-07-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  137. 2009-07-28 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  138. 2009-07-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  139. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  140. 2009-07-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  141. 2009-07-29 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Some Jewish Spiritual information for those
  142. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  143. 2009-07-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  144. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  145. 2009-07-29 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  146. 2009-07-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  147. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  148. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  149. 2009-07-29 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  150. 2009-07-29 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  151. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Freedom-IT planning Start
  152. 2009-07-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  153. 2009-07-29 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  154. 2009-07-30 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  155. 2009-07-30 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  156. 2009-07-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  157. 2009-07-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Inservice
  158. 2009-07-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services
  159. 2009-07-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving ISP Services

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