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DATE 2003-06-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2003-06-16
FROM Dave Williams
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] A typical example
From owner-hangout-desteny-at-mrbrklyn.com Mon Jun 16 21:13:53 2003
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Subject: [hangout] A typical example
From: Dave Williams
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The lack of effective Free Software advocacy in America typically
results in articles like the following. Most of the complaints and
successes of Linux described in this article are the direct result of
GNU/Linux. Otherwise, the bulk of the article is composed of glaring
errors and cultivated quotes.

Free Software makes it possible, and Freedom is why certain areas are
held back. But "Free Software" is never mentioned in the article. The
rest of the world is starting to catch on. How can this discrepancy in
the American press be addressed?

http://www.forbes.com/technology/enterprisetech/2003/06/16/cx_ld_0616linux.html

The Limitations Of Linux
Lisa DiCarlo, Forbes.com
06.16.03, 12:00 PM ET

There have been so many glowing stories on the use of Linux that one
might come away with the impression that Linux is an elixir that solves
myriad business problems, and that it is always cheaper than
alternatives. But like a lot of technologies before it, Linux has, to
some degree, been overhyped.

There is no question that companies can sometimes cut costs and increase
productivity by using Linux systems instead of Unix or Microsoft
(nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) Windows. But there are costs and
technical limitations associated with Linux that don't typically make
headlines.

Customers say these include a lack of mature development tools, too many
Linux variants, acquisition costs for more sophisticated versions of the
software and lack of applications for small and medium-sized businesses.

Master Nursery Garden Center, a $500 million gardening cooperative, has
been using Linux for several years and is satisfied with its cost and
performance. Yet Michael Baeta, director of technology communications,
concedes that there is "not a lot of depth" in some areas. "Figuring out
stuff...like production, low-end desktop publishing or using a
consumer-oriented database will take some outside consulting," he says.
"You run into problems when you try to do something that it's not
designed to do."

That's partly because, at this point, Linux lags Windows in terms of
integration with hardware and software. That's changing--Oracle (nasdaq:
ORCL - news - people ), Dell Computer (nasdaq: DELL - news - people ),
IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ), Veritas Software (nasdaq: VRTS - news
- people ) and others are making inroads--but it takes time to test for
every permutation and make sure everything works well together.
What about cost?

Ask anyone to name the first thing that comes to mind when they hear the
word "Linux," and most likely what he'll say is "free." While less
complex versions of Linux are often free, enterprise-class variants are
more costly.

Tom Fisher, assistant vice president at Guide One Insurance, was stung
by the $10,000 price tag of the mainframe version of Linux, distributed
by SuSe. "IBM was preaching that Linux was free," says Fisher. "But it's
not free on the mainframe. That was a big surprise." Still, he says he
avoids support fees, which can run in the tens of thousands of dollars
annually, by leveraging the worldwide network of Linux developers on the
Web.

Most companies measure cost not by the initial one-time purchase of
hardware or software, but by what it costs over a period of years, or
the total cost of ownership.

"Linux is not free when you count maintenance and support," says Aaron
Barnham, vice president of operations at TMP Technologies, a unit of
Monster Worldwide (nasdaq: MNST - news - people ), which runs career
Web site Monster.com. "Every company, product and Web site is different.
With tech budgets tight, everybody needs to look at their true cost of
ownership and determine what is the right fit."

Barnham explained that the cost of swapping out Windows or Unix servers,
retraining and maintenance might wipe out whatever initial cost savings
Linux provides. That said, "If Microsoft keeps raising software prices,
it will change our total cost-of-ownership numbers and that would force
us to reconsider."

Last year, Microsoft sponsored a study by International Data Corp. that
found Windows systems to be cheaper than Linux over a five-year period.
The study looked at five common business uses and concluded that Windows
is less expensive in four of five instances. IDC pointed out, however,
that Linux developers and supporters are quickly closing the price gap.
Packaged Linux software will increasingly be built into server hardware,
reducing the need for extra development. Further, the report said,
"system management tools are emerging and can be expected to expand
rapidly," thus reducing the total cost of Linux servers.

For smaller customers, Linux might not be cost effective. That's because
there aren't as many Linux applications available for small businesses
as for larger ones, and also because small customers generally don't
have the resources to do much custom development.

"I'm not a fan of Linux at all [because] there wasn't a lot of
off-the-shelf software," says Jalem Getz, president of Buyseasons, a $10
million costume e-tailer that dumped its open-source Web servers for
Windows in 2000. "We had to build everything from scratch and we didn't
have the budget for that."

Getz says there were technical problems with Microsoft's Commerce Server
products but that the company made good by giving Buyseasons four free
weeks of development time with Microsoft engineers.

John Groenveld, associate research engineer at Pennsylvania State
Applied Research Lab, says he is "no fan of Microsoft" but is distressed
by the fact that there isn't a single standard for Linux. There are many
companies, including Red Hat (nasdaq: RHAT - news - people ) and SuSe,
producing their own versions. "Each has [its] own peculiarities,"
Groenveld says. "What if you choose one that doesn't succeed" in the
marketplace?

Most experts agree that there will be a shakeout amongst Linux
distributors simply because the market, however large, will not sustain
all the players.

So, in the end, this is what we know: Linux is here to stay; it will get
better; and sometimes it's cheaper than alternatives, but it's not right
for every application. We know the very same about Windows.

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  2. 2003-06-30 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  3. 2003-06-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  4. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  5. 2003-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  6. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] Back from Trinidad
  7. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  8. 2003-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] phone number
  9. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC Evening Meetings
  10. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  11. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  12. 2003-06-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] RMS at tonights installfeast: 4:PM to Midnite
  13. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] My response to the board meeting
  14. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] moving on
  15. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  16. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] spectorhome-at-patmedia.net
  17. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of touch
  18. 2003-06-24 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Subject: [hangout] moving on
  19. 2003-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: GNU/Linux One Installfeast
  20. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  21. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  22. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  23. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  24. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  25. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  26. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  27. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  28. 2003-06-24 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] new members wanted?
  29. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  30. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  31. 2003-06-24 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  32. 2003-06-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] LRP
  33. 2003-06-23 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] LRP
  34. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Tonight's meeting
  35. 2003-06-23 akbar pasha <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] LRP
  36. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  37. 2003-06-23 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I sense a theme here...
  38. 2003-06-23 From: "'Marco Scoffier'" <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] agenda
  39. 2003-06-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] agenda
  40. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] agenda
  41. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  42. 2003-06-23 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  43. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] defense strategy = SCO-to-open source migration projects?
  44. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  45. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  46. 2003-06-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  47. 2003-06-22 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  48. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  49. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  50. 2003-06-22 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  51. 2003-06-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  52. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  53. 2003-06-21 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  54. 2003-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  55. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  56. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sshd down
  57. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  58. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] In Chaos There is still work
  59. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  60. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  61. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  62. 2003-06-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  63. 2003-06-19 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  64. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: 100% or more?
  65. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome.org press release
  66. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  67. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  68. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] sshd down
  69. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS We got a video workstation
  70. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Enough already
  71. 2003-06-19 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  72. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  73. 2003-06-19 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  74. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  75. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  76. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  77. 2003-06-18 jonathan <jonathan-at-staff.beliefnet.com> Subject: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  78. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  79. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: root password for President
  80. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  81. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  82. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  83. 2003-06-18 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] source code or lawyers
  84. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  85. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  86. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  87. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  88. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Journal Accepting Nominations: DUE JUNE 23
  89. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] More idiocy
  90. 2003-06-17 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] More idiocy
  91. 2003-06-17 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  92. 2003-06-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  93. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  94. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  95. 2003-06-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Need use computer to give away for linux desktops
  96. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  97. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  98. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  99. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] A typical example
  100. 2003-06-16 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  101. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  102. 2003-06-16 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  103. 2003-06-16 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  104. 2003-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  105. 2003-06-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  106. 2003-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show - Paying Gig
  107. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  108. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  109. 2003-06-15 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] mesh networking / aodv routing / mesh-ap / locustworld
  110. 2003-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  111. 2003-06-15 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  112. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  113. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  114. 2003-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  115. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  116. 2003-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  117. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  118. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  119. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  120. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  121. 2003-06-13 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO is good for Linux
  122. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  123. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  124. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  125. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  126. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  127. 2003-06-13 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  128. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  129. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter]
  130. 2003-06-13 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  131. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  132. 2003-06-13 From: "h00man being" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  133. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  134. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  135. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  136. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  137. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  138. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter
  139. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  140. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  141. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  142. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  143. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  144. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  145. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  146. 2003-06-12 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  147. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  148. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  149. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I kind of remember suggesting something like this...
  150. 2003-06-12 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO finds the smoking gun
  151. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  152. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  153. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  154. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  155. 2003-06-11 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe justifies desktop Linux
  156. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  157. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  158. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  159. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  160. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  161. 2003-06-11 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  162. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  163. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  164. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  165. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  166. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  167. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  168. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  169. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  170. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  171. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  172. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  173. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] hi, what's this list for?
  174. 2003-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  175. 2003-06-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Vs. Linux Desktop Battle Heats Up
  176. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] FTP Question
  177. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Access in State and Local Government
  178. 2003-06-11 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] FTP Question
  179. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  180. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] when is the board meeting scheduled?
  181. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  182. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  183. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  184. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  185. 2003-06-10 Bill Putney <bputney-at-effective-tech.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: Linux Administrator (fwd)
  186. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] free stuff
  187. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Ximian Desktop 2
  188. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  189. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  190. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Merrill Lynch: Linux saves money
  191. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  192. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  193. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] LINUX THREAT TO MICROSOFT IS VERY REAL
  194. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  195. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  196. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  197. 2003-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  198. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  199. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  200. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  201. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  202. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  203. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  204. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  205. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl Class and GNU/Linux One
  206. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  207. 2003-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] linux journal
  208. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI and the 'Net
  209. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  210. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [service-at-domainmonger.com: Automated -10 day renewal reminder 2003-06-06]
  211. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Domain Names
  212. 2003-06-06 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] linux proxy and firewall
  213. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Scribus] On Screen Font Rendering in Document
  214. 2003-06-06 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] [RHSA-2003:192-01] Updated KDE packages fix security issue (was:Re: [hangout] [krahmer-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SuSE Security Announcement: cups (SuSE-SA:2003:028)])
  215. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Scribus Compile
  216. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  217. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  218. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  219. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  220. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  221. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show
  222. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Schedule
  223. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware success!
  224. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] New Email Addy
  225. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware again
  226. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware again
  227. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  228. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  229. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: conference in northern france [athome-at-externe.net]
  230. 2003-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  231. 2003-06-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C libs problem
  232. 2003-06-05 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] NYT
  233. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Outsourcing
  234. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] I dont know if this has bearing on the SCO case, but
  235. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  236. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  237. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] NYT
  238. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  239. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  240. 2003-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  241. 2003-06-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Senator Brownback (R-Kansas) introduces Fair Use enhancing bill
  242. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  243. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  244. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  245. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO hit by legal action in Germany
  246. 2003-06-04 From: "akbar pasha" <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] linux journal
  247. 2003-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problems
  248. 2003-06-03 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problems
  249. 2003-06-03 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Not Ready!
  250. 2003-06-02 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] MS in India
  251. 2003-06-02 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Check this out! do you think this is for real
  252. 2003-06-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of town tomorrow
  253. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  254. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  255. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  256. 2003-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Slackware problem
  257. 2003-06-02 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problem
  258. 2003-06-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] http://www.nylxs.com/classes
  259. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  260. 2003-06-02 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  261. 2003-06-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  262. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  263. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Thanks Everyone - Technite Big Success
  264. 2003-06-01 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  265. 2003-06-01 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  266. 2003-06-01 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] the baby is here
  267. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  268. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Meeting Time Changed: Linux Scene Calender for Today
  269. 2003-06-02 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-bxscience.edu> Re: [hangout] 3d

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