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DATE 2003-06-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2003-06-05
FROM Dave Williams
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Outsourcing
From owner-hangout-desteny-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Jun 5 13:21:39 2003
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Subject: [hangout] Outsourcing
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>From http://newsforge.com/newsforge/03/06/05/1542250.shtml?tid=3

The Impact of the Offshore Services Phenomenon: A Global Perspective
By Robin 'Roblimo' Miller

In a teleconference held June 5, 2003, IDC analysts said they expect
global outsourcing in the IT industry to increase, which will put smiles
on the faces of workers in China, The Philippines, India, Vietnam, and
Eastern Europe, but will continue to depress U.S. and Western European
IT workers. Except the French.

The presentation pointed out that the trend of moving as much work as
possible to countries with the lowest wages is not new. In the case of
the U.S., it started with apparel and electronics manufacturing in the
1960s, and the offshore trend in those industries has been so complete,
said one IDC person, that today "there is not one TV manufactured in the
U.S."

Now IT hardware development and manufacturing, software development,
business process functions (like HR and customer service), and IT
services, including infrastructure monitoring and management, are
leaving high-wage countries.

IDC sees some political backlash in developed countries to the idea of
"exporting jobs," and expects legislation to be introduced in many
jurisdictions that will try to halt this movement. But IDC also believes
global companies will find ways around these restrictions.

According to a study IDC did in January 2003, fewer than 15% of U.S. IT
firms are opposed to using offshore workers, 20% prefer to use U.S.
resources, and about 65% are "open to using resources outside U.S."

IDC warns that Bangalore, India's primary IT hub, may no longer offer
the world's best IT outsourcing value; that the infrastructure there is
saturated; and wages for skilled workers are being bid up, with many new
grads demanding annual salaries of $4,000 (USD) or more -- not only in
Bangalore but all over India.

China is cheaper than India, but IDC people say it's not as easy to open
up a shop there as it is in India; that significant time must be put
into developing what they politely call "political relationships."

In Europe it looks like India, China, and other Far East nations are not
getting as much outsourcing attention as they are getting in the U.S.

The European outsourcing pattern looks like a wave moving eastward, with
most of the activity in the Czech Republic,Russia, Romania, and the
Baltic States (e.g. Latvia and Estonia).

Two European countries break this pattern: The U.K. has strong
historical ties to India, so India is an obvious outsourcing location
for U.K. firms. And, says IDC, "France's pride in local
software/services houses" leads most French firms to avoid sending work
out of the country even if it can save them money.

A strong discussion point was whether it is better for a company to open
a branch and hire directly in the low-wage country or to work
second-hand through local contractors. There was no clear consensus on
this; ownership and control have advantages, but working with a local
company reduces liability and may eliminate some political problems at
both ends of the outsourcing chain.

One notable trend, everywhere, is that small software and IT shops are
being snapped up by larger ones.

Another trend IDC notes is that the worldwide IT consulting industry is
under -- as they put it -- "severe downward pricing pressure." In other
words, everyone is trying to undercut the next one, not just in any one
country but everywhere in the world.

Yet another trend is that nearly every country with lower wages and
lower cost of living than the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe is trying
to get into the outsourcing business in one way or another, whether in
high-wage IT areas or by running lower-wage call centers, payroll
processing facilities, and doing other low-skill but necessary clerical
work.

One factor that may reverse some of the process of everything moving
offshore, at least in IT, is advances in "utility model" on-demand
computing, which kills some of the advantages of having utility-style
computer centers in one country instead of another. However, not all of
IDC's people agree that this will make much difference, so the company
has no real "official" position here.

But IDC's people do seem to agree that on-demand computing is a coming
thing, and that it is an area that will be dominated by huge companies
like IBM, EDS, and others capable of operating data centers all over the
world and shifting resources to wherever they are most needed. And as
this business change takes place, IDC was saying, all local and regional
players -- whether in the U.S., Germany, China or India -- will have
trouble competing.

The upshot:

Like it or not, work that takes no particular cultural tie -- what we
might call "generic telework" -- is going to move to the cheapest
possible place, and large companies with presences in many countries are
going to have a growing advantage over local and regional firms.

Another factor brought up is that cities whose populations speak a wide
range of languages and come from a large number of cultures will have an
advantage in some business areas. Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney, and
Melbourne were specifically mentioned.

Linux and Open Source were mentioned as a factor in making global
outsourcing easier, not necessarily in and of themselves, but because
they lower the entry cost barrier to the IT services business no matter
where you are.

And in a larger sense, as one IDC analyst put it, "Linux represents the
growing commoditization of IT in general."

This commoditization trend, IDC is convinced, will continue to be the
biggest factor in IT industry directions in the near future, with or
without global outsourcing. We are not going to see a return to the
"glory years" of 1998 - 2000 no matter what.

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  2. 2003-06-30 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  3. 2003-06-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  4. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  5. 2003-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  6. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] Back from Trinidad
  7. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  8. 2003-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] phone number
  9. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC Evening Meetings
  10. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  11. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  12. 2003-06-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] RMS at tonights installfeast: 4:PM to Midnite
  13. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] My response to the board meeting
  14. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] moving on
  15. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  16. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] spectorhome-at-patmedia.net
  17. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of touch
  18. 2003-06-24 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Subject: [hangout] moving on
  19. 2003-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: GNU/Linux One Installfeast
  20. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  21. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  22. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  23. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  24. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  25. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  26. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  27. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  28. 2003-06-24 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] new members wanted?
  29. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  30. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  31. 2003-06-24 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  32. 2003-06-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] LRP
  33. 2003-06-23 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] LRP
  34. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Tonight's meeting
  35. 2003-06-23 akbar pasha <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] LRP
  36. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  37. 2003-06-23 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I sense a theme here...
  38. 2003-06-23 From: "'Marco Scoffier'" <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] agenda
  39. 2003-06-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] agenda
  40. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] agenda
  41. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  42. 2003-06-23 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  43. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] defense strategy = SCO-to-open source migration projects?
  44. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  45. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  46. 2003-06-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  47. 2003-06-22 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  48. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  49. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  50. 2003-06-22 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  51. 2003-06-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  52. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  53. 2003-06-21 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  54. 2003-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  55. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  56. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sshd down
  57. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  58. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] In Chaos There is still work
  59. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  60. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  61. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  62. 2003-06-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  63. 2003-06-19 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  64. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: 100% or more?
  65. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome.org press release
  66. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  67. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  68. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] sshd down
  69. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS We got a video workstation
  70. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Enough already
  71. 2003-06-19 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  72. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  73. 2003-06-19 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  74. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  75. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  76. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  77. 2003-06-18 jonathan <jonathan-at-staff.beliefnet.com> Subject: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  78. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  79. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: root password for President
  80. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  81. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  82. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  83. 2003-06-18 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] source code or lawyers
  84. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  85. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  86. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  87. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  88. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Journal Accepting Nominations: DUE JUNE 23
  89. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] More idiocy
  90. 2003-06-17 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] More idiocy
  91. 2003-06-17 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  92. 2003-06-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  93. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  94. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  95. 2003-06-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Need use computer to give away for linux desktops
  96. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  97. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  98. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  99. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] A typical example
  100. 2003-06-16 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  101. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  102. 2003-06-16 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  103. 2003-06-16 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  104. 2003-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  105. 2003-06-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  106. 2003-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show - Paying Gig
  107. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  108. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  109. 2003-06-15 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] mesh networking / aodv routing / mesh-ap / locustworld
  110. 2003-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  111. 2003-06-15 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  112. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  113. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  114. 2003-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  115. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  116. 2003-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  117. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  118. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  119. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  120. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  121. 2003-06-13 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO is good for Linux
  122. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  123. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  124. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  125. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  126. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  127. 2003-06-13 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  128. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  129. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter]
  130. 2003-06-13 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  131. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  132. 2003-06-13 From: "h00man being" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  133. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  134. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  135. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  136. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  137. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  138. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter
  139. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  140. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  141. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  142. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  143. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  144. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  145. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  146. 2003-06-12 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  147. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  148. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  149. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I kind of remember suggesting something like this...
  150. 2003-06-12 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO finds the smoking gun
  151. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  152. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  153. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  154. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  155. 2003-06-11 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe justifies desktop Linux
  156. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  157. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  158. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  159. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  160. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  161. 2003-06-11 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  162. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  163. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  164. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  165. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  166. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  167. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  168. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  169. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  170. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  171. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  172. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  173. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] hi, what's this list for?
  174. 2003-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  175. 2003-06-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Vs. Linux Desktop Battle Heats Up
  176. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] FTP Question
  177. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Access in State and Local Government
  178. 2003-06-11 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] FTP Question
  179. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  180. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] when is the board meeting scheduled?
  181. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  182. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  183. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  184. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  185. 2003-06-10 Bill Putney <bputney-at-effective-tech.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: Linux Administrator (fwd)
  186. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] free stuff
  187. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Ximian Desktop 2
  188. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  189. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  190. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Merrill Lynch: Linux saves money
  191. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  192. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  193. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] LINUX THREAT TO MICROSOFT IS VERY REAL
  194. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  195. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  196. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  197. 2003-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  198. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  199. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  200. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  201. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  202. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  203. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  204. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  205. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl Class and GNU/Linux One
  206. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  207. 2003-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] linux journal
  208. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI and the 'Net
  209. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  210. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [service-at-domainmonger.com: Automated -10 day renewal reminder 2003-06-06]
  211. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Domain Names
  212. 2003-06-06 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] linux proxy and firewall
  213. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Scribus] On Screen Font Rendering in Document
  214. 2003-06-06 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] [RHSA-2003:192-01] Updated KDE packages fix security issue (was:Re: [hangout] [krahmer-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SuSE Security Announcement: cups (SuSE-SA:2003:028)])
  215. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Scribus Compile
  216. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  217. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  218. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  219. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  220. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  221. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show
  222. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Schedule
  223. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware success!
  224. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] New Email Addy
  225. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware again
  226. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware again
  227. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  228. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  229. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: conference in northern france [athome-at-externe.net]
  230. 2003-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  231. 2003-06-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C libs problem
  232. 2003-06-05 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] NYT
  233. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Outsourcing
  234. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] I dont know if this has bearing on the SCO case, but
  235. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  236. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  237. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] NYT
  238. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  239. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  240. 2003-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  241. 2003-06-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Senator Brownback (R-Kansas) introduces Fair Use enhancing bill
  242. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  243. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  244. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  245. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO hit by legal action in Germany
  246. 2003-06-04 From: "akbar pasha" <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] linux journal
  247. 2003-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problems
  248. 2003-06-03 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problems
  249. 2003-06-03 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Not Ready!
  250. 2003-06-02 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] MS in India
  251. 2003-06-02 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Check this out! do you think this is for real
  252. 2003-06-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of town tomorrow
  253. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  254. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  255. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  256. 2003-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Slackware problem
  257. 2003-06-02 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problem
  258. 2003-06-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] http://www.nylxs.com/classes
  259. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  260. 2003-06-02 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  261. 2003-06-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  262. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  263. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Thanks Everyone - Technite Big Success
  264. 2003-06-01 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  265. 2003-06-01 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  266. 2003-06-01 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] the baby is here
  267. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  268. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Meeting Time Changed: Linux Scene Calender for Today
  269. 2003-06-02 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-bxscience.edu> Re: [hangout] 3d

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