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DATE 2003-06-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2003-06-14
FROM Richard Stallman
SUBJECT Re: [hangout] Embrace and...

Looking at this article from March, I see it does not specifically
refer to Stanco's conference. I had the impression that this had
been announced by Microsoft at the conference, but the article
doesn't say so.

Was it so?

Can anyone send me the text o the article by Mary Jo Foley that
it refers to? Can anyone send me a copy of the license itself?
>From this description, it sounds like a free software license.
I hesitate to think that is true, but I should check it myself
and see.


Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:07:39 -0500
From: Ruben I Safir
To: Dave Williams , hangout-at-nylxs.com,
fairuse-at-nylxs.com, rms-at-gnu.org
Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
In-Reply-To: <1048089474.3296.33.camel-at-connie>; from jdave23-at-informationwave.net on Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:57:55 -0500
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mrbrklyn.com id h2JG7dN1015560
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.8 required=5.0
tests=IN_REP_TO,LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,REFERENCES,
SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,SUPERLONG_LINE
version=2.41
X-Spam-Level:

YOU SEE THIS IS WHAT GOD DAMN TONY STANCO IS BRINGING ON THE
COMMUNITY

WAHT 3 DAYS OF CONFERENCE AND THIS IS THE ONLY RESULT.




MS shared source twitches towards liberal licensing
By John Lettice
Posted: 19/03/2003 at 13:58 GMT

A new form of Microsoft's shared source licence agreement unearthed by Microsoft Watch suggests that The Beast is at the very least experimenting with forms of words that might work, as opposed to engaging purely in propaganda efforts. The strapline to Mary Jo Foley's report says that the licence "seems to be inching closer - at least in spirit - to the GNU GPL" - this is clearly not true, but we nevertheless think we detect some element of constructiveness.

Microsoft's attitude to open source is schizoid. On the one hand the company's hierarchy categorises it as some kind of communistic peril that will eat all your IP if you touch it, while on the other Microsoft is very jealous, and really wants to figure out how it can similarly benefit from scads of happy developers making Microsoft software better for fun, because it's a mission. There are obviously fatal contradictions in Microsoft trying to set such processes in motion while continuing to keep all the money for itself, but one of the reasons Microsoft got where it is today is that it looked after developers, so aspects of the shared source initiatives represent a serious attempt to learn from and to reinvent successful models from elsewhere.

OK, it's a serious attempt to do this for ultimately devilish ends, but it's not wholly a marketing gag.

The current serious attempt appears in the ASP .Net Starter Kit License, a text of which you'll find here. It's short, and the salient features are that you can modify the software, distribute in source code form and create derivative works without having to check with Microsoft or pay royalties. You do have to tell the recipients you've made changes and when those changes were made, and you have to distribute under the new Microsoft licence, but that's pretty much it. It moves away from the 'look, don't touch' approach that's previously characterised shared source, and gives the impression that developers using this licence model will be doing so to develop software of value, rather than operating largely as unpaid bug-hunters for Redmond.

On its own it's clearly not enough, because one probably experimental wording for one thing certainly doesn't signal a revolution in Microsoft's approach to licensing. But if we sight a few more swallows, then it may take on significance.

Microsoft's terror of open source however remains all too obvious. The licence stresses:

"That you are not allowed to combine or distribute the Software with other software that is licensed under terms that seek to require that the Software (or any intellectual property in it) be provided in source code form, licensed to others to allow the creation or distribution of derivative works, or distributed without charge."

That is, Microsoft's lawyers still insist that you'll catch something nasty if you let open source touch your stuff. But nevertheless there are signs of movement here; Microsoft clearly will never adopt the GPL, but it might - over a long period, and at the expense of some considerable pain - eventually end up devising and employing something more BSD-ish. Could save itself a hell of a lot of time if it just stopped bitching about the open source peril and focussed positively on new models now, we reckon... ®

On 2003.03.19 10:57 Dave Williams wrote:
>
> This is a good one:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29823.html
>
> - Dave
>
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
>
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585

>From owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Sat Jun 14 08:26:13 2003
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>From owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Sat Jun 14 08:25:52 2003
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From: Richard Stallman
To: Ruben I Safir
CC: jdave23-at-informationwave.net, hangout-at-nylxs.com, fairuse-at-nylxs.com
In-reply-to: <20030319110739.A14744-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> (message from Ruben I
Safir on Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:07:39 -0500)
Subject: Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
Reply-to: rms-at-gnu.org
References: <1048089474.3296.33.camel-at-connie> <20030319110739.A14744-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-Id:
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:28:29 -0400

Looking at this article from March, I see it does not specifically
refer to Stanco's conference. I had the impression that this had
been announced by Microsoft at the conference, but the article
doesn't say so.

Was it so?

Can anyone send me the text o the article by Mary Jo Foley that
it refers to? Can anyone send me a copy of the license itself?
>From this description, it sounds like a free software license.
I hesitate to think that is true, but I should check it myself
and see.


Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:07:39 -0500
From: Ruben I Safir
To: Dave Williams , hangout-at-nylxs.com,
fairuse-at-nylxs.com, rms-at-gnu.org
Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
In-Reply-To: <1048089474.3296.33.camel-at-connie>; from jdave23-at-informationwave.net on Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:57:55 -0500
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mrbrklyn.com id h2JG7dN1015560
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.8 required=5.0
tests=IN_REP_TO,LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,REFERENCES,
SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,SUPERLONG_LINE
version=2.41
X-Spam-Level:

YOU SEE THIS IS WHAT GOD DAMN TONY STANCO IS BRINGING ON THE
COMMUNITY

WAHT 3 DAYS OF CONFERENCE AND THIS IS THE ONLY RESULT.




MS shared source twitches towards liberal licensing
By John Lettice
Posted: 19/03/2003 at 13:58 GMT

A new form of Microsoft's shared source licence agreement unearthed by Microsoft Watch suggests that The Beast is at the very least experimenting with forms of words that might work, as opposed to engaging purely in propaganda efforts. The strapline to Mary Jo Foley's report says that the licence "seems to be inching closer - at least in spirit - to the GNU GPL" - this is clearly not true, but we nevertheless think we detect some element of constructiveness.

Microsoft's attitude to open source is schizoid. On the one hand the company's hierarchy categorises it as some kind of communistic peril that will eat all your IP if you touch it, while on the other Microsoft is very jealous, and really wants to figure out how it can similarly benefit from scads of happy developers making Microsoft software better for fun, because it's a mission. There are obviously fatal contradictions in Microsoft trying to set such processes in motion while continuing to keep all the money for itself, but one of the reasons Microsoft got where it is today is that it looked after developers, so aspects of the shared source initiatives represent a serious attempt to learn from and to reinvent successful models from elsewhere.

OK, it's a serious attempt to do this for ultimately devilish ends, but it's not wholly a marketing gag.

The current serious attempt appears in the ASP .Net Starter Kit License, a text of which you'll find here. It's short, and the salient features are that you can modify the software, distribute in source code form and create derivative works without having to check with Microsoft or pay royalties. You do have to tell the recipients you've made changes and when those changes were made, and you have to distribute under the new Microsoft licence, but that's pretty much it. It moves away from the 'look, don't touch' approach that's previously characterised shared source, and gives the impression that developers using this licence model will be doing so to develop software of value, rather than operating largely as unpaid bug-hunters for Redmond.

On its own it's clearly not enough, because one probably experimental wording for one thing certainly doesn't signal a revolution in Microsoft's approach to licensing. But if we sight a few more swallows, then it may take on significance.

Microsoft's terror of open source however remains all too obvious. The licence stresses:

"That you are not allowed to combine or distribute the Software with other software that is licensed under terms that seek to require that the Software (or any intellectual property in it) be provided in source code form, licensed to others to allow the creation or distribution of derivative works, or distributed without charge."

That is, Microsoft's lawyers still insist that you'll catch something nasty if you let open source touch your stuff. But nevertheless there are signs of movement here; Microsoft clearly will never adopt the GPL, but it might - over a long period, and at the expense of some considerable pain - eventually end up devising and employing something more BSD-ish. Could save itself a hell of a lot of time if it just stopped bitching about the open source peril and focussed positively on new models now, we reckon... ®

On 2003.03.19 10:57 Dave Williams wrote:
>
> This is a good one:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29823.html
>
> - Dave
>
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
>
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  2. 2003-06-30 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  3. 2003-06-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  4. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  5. 2003-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] SuSe 8.2
  6. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] Back from Trinidad
  7. 2003-06-30 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  8. 2003-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] phone number
  9. 2003-06-30 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSCC Evening Meetings
  10. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  11. 2003-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite Succussses Continues
  12. 2003-06-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] RMS at tonights installfeast: 4:PM to Midnite
  13. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] My response to the board meeting
  14. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] moving on
  15. 2003-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  16. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] spectorhome-at-patmedia.net
  17. 2003-06-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of touch
  18. 2003-06-24 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Subject: [hangout] moving on
  19. 2003-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI: GNU/Linux One Installfeast
  20. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  21. 2003-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Change of plans -- resignation
  22. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  23. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  24. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  25. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  26. 2003-06-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  27. 2003-06-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  28. 2003-06-24 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] new members wanted?
  29. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  30. 2003-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  31. 2003-06-24 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] GRR's Laws of IT/Computers.
  32. 2003-06-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] LRP
  33. 2003-06-23 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] LRP
  34. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Tonight's meeting
  35. 2003-06-23 akbar pasha <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] LRP
  36. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  37. 2003-06-23 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I sense a theme here...
  38. 2003-06-23 From: "'Marco Scoffier'" <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] agenda
  39. 2003-06-23 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] agenda
  40. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] agenda
  41. 2003-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  42. 2003-06-23 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  43. 2003-06-23 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] defense strategy = SCO-to-open source migration projects?
  44. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  45. 2003-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  46. 2003-06-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Proxy Vote
  47. 2003-06-22 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  48. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I sense a theme here...
  49. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  50. 2003-06-22 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] today's meeting proceeds as usual?
  51. 2003-06-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  52. 2003-06-22 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  53. 2003-06-21 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: A typical example
  54. 2003-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  55. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  56. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sshd down
  57. 2003-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  58. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] In Chaos There is still work
  59. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Emergency Board meeting Monday.
  60. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  61. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  62. 2003-06-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  63. 2003-06-19 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  64. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: 100% or more?
  65. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Gnome.org press release
  66. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  67. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  68. 2003-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] sshd down
  69. 2003-06-19 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS We got a video workstation
  70. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Enough already
  71. 2003-06-19 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  72. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  73. 2003-06-19 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  74. 2003-06-19 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] root password for President
  75. 2003-06-19 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  76. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  77. 2003-06-18 jonathan <jonathan-at-staff.beliefnet.com> Subject: [hangout] help our poor sad nation
  78. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] root password for President
  79. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: root password for President
  80. 2003-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  81. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] TRADEMARK APPLICATION NO. 78178384 - NYLXS - N/A
  82. 2003-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS materials
  83. 2003-06-18 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] source code or lawyers
  84. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  85. 2003-06-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  86. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  87. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  88. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Journal Accepting Nominations: DUE JUNE 23
  89. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] More idiocy
  90. 2003-06-17 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] More idiocy
  91. 2003-06-17 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  92. 2003-06-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] NYLUG tomorrow / Bochs
  93. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] nylxs space / king games
  94. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  95. 2003-06-17 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Need use computer to give away for linux desktops
  96. 2003-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  97. 2003-06-17 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  98. 2003-06-17 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux developer fights back...
  99. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] A typical example
  100. 2003-06-16 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  101. 2003-06-16 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  102. 2003-06-16 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  103. 2003-06-16 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  104. 2003-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Board Meeting
  105. 2003-06-16 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  106. 2003-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show - Paying Gig
  107. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  108. 2003-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  109. 2003-06-15 From: "michael howard" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] mesh networking / aodv routing / mesh-ap / locustworld
  110. 2003-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Consumer Reports on Walmart Systems
  111. 2003-06-15 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Mounting PCMCIA SmartMedia Adapter?
  112. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  113. 2003-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  114. 2003-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  115. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  116. 2003-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  117. 2003-06-14 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  118. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  119. 2003-06-14 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Embrace and...
  120. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  121. 2003-06-13 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO is good for Linux
  122. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  123. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  124. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  125. 2003-06-13 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  126. 2003-06-13 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] The false profet (editorial)
  127. 2003-06-13 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  128. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] More PCMCIA Stuff
  129. 2003-06-13 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter]
  130. 2003-06-13 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  131. 2003-06-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  132. 2003-06-13 From: "h00man being" <h00man1-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] sunday night tech event address
  133. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  134. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  135. 2003-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  136. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  137. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  138. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] PCMCIA SmartMedia Card Adapter
  139. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I remember when the US was a leader in technology.
  140. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  141. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  142. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  143. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Van Needed for Installfest on June 22nd
  144. 2003-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  145. 2003-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  146. 2003-06-12 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  147. 2003-06-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  148. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Pass the bong dude, it's Windows hacking time!
  149. 2003-06-12 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] I kind of remember suggesting something like this...
  150. 2003-06-12 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO finds the smoking gun
  151. 2003-06-12 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  152. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  153. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  154. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  155. 2003-06-11 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSe justifies desktop Linux
  156. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  157. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  158. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  159. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  160. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  161. 2003-06-11 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  162. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  163. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  164. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  165. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting
  166. 2003-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  167. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  168. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  169. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  170. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Search Engine Listings Effected?
  171. 2003-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  172. 2003-06-11 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  173. 2003-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] hi, what's this list for?
  174. 2003-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] email and our server
  175. 2003-06-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Vs. Linux Desktop Battle Heats Up
  176. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] FTP Question
  177. 2003-06-11 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Access in State and Local Government
  178. 2003-06-11 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] FTP Question
  179. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board Meeting
  180. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] when is the board meeting scheduled?
  181. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  182. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  183. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  184. 2003-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Tech-Nite - Growing success
  185. 2003-06-10 Bill Putney <bputney-at-effective-tech.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: Linux Administrator (fwd)
  186. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] free stuff
  187. 2003-06-10 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Ximian Desktop 2
  188. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  189. 2003-06-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Gears Linux Desktop for Large Sites
  190. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Merrill Lynch: Linux saves money
  191. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  192. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  193. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] LINUX THREAT TO MICROSOFT IS VERY REAL
  194. 2003-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] letterhead
  195. 2003-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] letterhead
  196. 2003-06-09 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  197. 2003-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  198. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  199. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  200. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  201. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  202. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  203. 2003-06-08 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  204. 2003-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Permission Change to a Mount Point?
  205. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl Class and GNU/Linux One
  206. 2003-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Scene Calender for Today
  207. 2003-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] linux journal
  208. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI and the 'Net
  209. 2003-06-07 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Domain Names
  210. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [service-at-domainmonger.com: Automated -10 day renewal reminder 2003-06-06]
  211. 2003-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Domain Names
  212. 2003-06-06 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] linux proxy and firewall
  213. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Scribus] On Screen Font Rendering in Document
  214. 2003-06-06 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] [RHSA-2003:192-01] Updated KDE packages fix security issue (was:Re: [hangout] [krahmer-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SuSE Security Announcement: cups (SuSE-SA:2003:028)])
  215. 2003-06-06 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Scribus Compile
  216. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  217. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  218. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  219. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  220. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] oops- Radios Show
  221. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show
  222. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Schedule
  223. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware success!
  224. 2003-06-05 From: "Ray C." <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] New Email Addy
  225. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware again
  226. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware again
  227. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  228. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  229. 2003-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: conference in northern france [athome-at-externe.net]
  230. 2003-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] C libs problem
  231. 2003-06-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C libs problem
  232. 2003-06-05 Deosaran Bisnath <deobisnath-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] NYT
  233. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Outsourcing
  234. 2003-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] I dont know if this has bearing on the SCO case, but
  235. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  236. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  237. 2003-06-05 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] NYT
  238. 2003-06-05 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Re: [hangout] Internal Memo
  239. 2003-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Internal Memo
  240. 2003-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] InformationWeek - Adolescent Angst
  241. 2003-06-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Senator Brownback (R-Kansas) introduces Fair Use enhancing bill
  242. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  243. 2003-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  244. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Enlisting the Young as White-Hat Hackers
  245. 2003-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SCO hit by legal action in Germany
  246. 2003-06-04 From: "akbar pasha" <akbar-at-pionerd.org> Subject: [hangout] linux journal
  247. 2003-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problems
  248. 2003-06-03 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problems
  249. 2003-06-03 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] Not Ready!
  250. 2003-06-02 Dave Williams <jdave23-at-express56.com> Subject: [hangout] MS in India
  251. 2003-06-02 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Check this out! do you think this is for real
  252. 2003-06-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'll be out of town tomorrow
  253. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  254. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  255. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Slackware problem
  256. 2003-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Slackware problem
  257. 2003-06-02 From: "Rene Ferrer" <ferrer_rene-at-hotmail.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware problem
  258. 2003-06-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] http://www.nylxs.com/classes
  259. 2003-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  260. 2003-06-02 Jacek Blizinski <azidog-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] 3d
  261. 2003-06-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS VICE PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  262. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  263. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Thanks Everyone - Technite Big Success
  264. 2003-06-01 nylxsdoer <nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  265. 2003-06-01 jam-at-rm-cpa.com Re: [hangout] the baby is here
  266. 2003-06-01 Selso DaSilva <selsok-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] the baby is here
  267. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  268. 2003-06-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Meeting Time Changed: Linux Scene Calender for Today
  269. 2003-06-02 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-bxscience.edu> Re: [hangout] 3d

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