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DATE 2015-03-01

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Key: Value:

MESSAGE

DATE	2015-03-15
FROM	Ruben Safir
SUBJECT	Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Kernel Mailing List Social Protocols
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 05:42:59AM -0400, prmarino1-at-gmail.com wrote: > > Rubin > The incident I was referring to was before the systemd issues. > > Also let's not forget Adam stopped participating in our group because of what he thought was a physical threat agains him by one of the members of the list. He asked us repeatedly to do something about it and because no actions were taken we lost a very valuable member of the group. That happened over a decade ago. Furthermore the person who the complaint was about was not the most effective member of the group and left the group in an angry huff a year or two after that. > Adam reached out to me not that long ago, now that you mention it. Adam, BTW, did not leave because of that thread. and there was mediation happening. It just wasn't on the mailing list. But FWIW, the list moderator, such as he is, eventually took action ;) :) > This is a serious issue the free software community and the open-source community has allowed to grow for far too long. > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > ?? Original Message ?? > From: Ruben > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 05:13 > To: hangout-at-nylxs.com > Reply To: hangout-at-nylxs.com > Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Kernel Mailing List Social Protocols > > > On 03/10/2015 01:19 PM, Paul Robert Marino wrote: > > Rubin > > Have you actually read it there is no statement of censorship at all > > in fact the reverse its basically states that inevitably occasionally > > frustrations will run high because every one is trying to do their > > best to enhance the kernel as much as possible; however if you feel > > some one is being excessively abusive or threatening report it so they > > can attempt to resolve the situation. > > > > I agree with it there have been a lot of conversations which get out > > of hand on some lists which do go as far as physical threats. lets > > face it the majority of the Linux community are passionate about the > > technology and that breads a certain level of necessary debate which > > can often get heated. Evin I have to admit on ocassion Ive been know > > to get so frustrated on a list with people who were out of their > > league in a conversation but claimed to be an authority on the subject > > that I've filliped out and started making fun of them. and lord knows > > how many technical flame wars which had enough real technical merits > > on the opposing side that i couldn't just dismiss them but got > > extremely heated during the course of the debate. These thing happen > > and are never eliminate that from the community nor should we want to > > because often those debates lead to better results than one individual > > could come up with on their own. > > > > That said occasionally you run across a few people who are just > > mentally ill and use our community as a venue to feed their insanity > > or get off on their rage issues, and add nothing productive to the > > process. That is unacceptable > > and we as a community need to filter those people out so we can get > > meaningful productive work done. Equally as important we also need to > > be able to recognize and help people who are use to scientific debates > > to form a thicker skin about it if they are over reacting to comments > > made during a debate. To accomplish both of these task we need people > > to report if they feel they are being verbally assaulted or physically > > threatened for no reliant reason and look at each incident and > > evaluate it because part of the community has gotten out of hand. > > > > For example a few years ago while at a bar a member of NYBUG asked me > > to come out side and have a cigaret with him, as soon as we got out > > side he started pressing his finger into my chest and treated me never > > call him on his bull shit ever again. > > I've had my share of run ins with people from the BSD group and I think > ... I don't know. there is something deeply wrong with most of them. > It is hard to create a community and even harder in NYC, for reasons > I've never understood. > > We grew up with pick up baseball and sports and I can't get people to > come to meetings that are in their best interest, and only the craziest > ones show up... > > > > > Now those weren't quite the > > words he used but it definitely was a threat. Considering where and > > how I grew up his threats didn't scare me a bit they only made me very > > angry and still do, but I can see how others would be scared because > > he could be considered by many a physically imposing and the setup > > seemed a little too practiced I am positive he has done it to others > > as well. now some people may be ask what started this well essentially > > he was telling a story about something that happened at one of the NYC > > Linux world expos where he made himself sound like the only sane > > person involved and was badmouthing a lot of good people. I guess he > > forgot I was there involved in the entire situation and a know it was > > the exact opposite of what he claimed. As a result I didn't insult him > > but I did verbally knock him down a peg by telling the group some of > > what really happens and told him to stop insulting friend of mine he > > doesn't really know. his response was to get me someplace with no one > > around and threaten physical violence. > > This kind of behavior is nuts and has no place in our community! > > > > Anyway, this is still just a means to set up rules to confine the > brewing conflicts that have spilled into the kernels list and nearly > everywhere else in the GNU/Linux world as systemd proponents > relentlessly look for levers to turn. > > > > > > here is the actual statement in > > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/CodeOfConflict?id=b0bc65729070b9cbdbb53ff042984a3c545a0e34 > > " > > > > Code of Conflict > > ---------------- > > > > The Linux kernel development effort is a very personal process compared > > to "traditional" ways of developing software. Your code and ideas > > behind it will be carefully reviewed, often resulting in critique and > > criticism. The review will almost always require improvements to the > > code before it can be included in the kernel. Know that this happens > > because everyone involved wants to see the best possible solution for > > the overall success of Linux. This development process has been proven > > to create the most robust operating system kernel ever, and we do not > > want to do anything to cause the quality of submission and eventual > > result to ever decrease. > > > > If however, anyone feels personally abused, threatened, or otherwise > > uncomfortable due to this process, that is not acceptable. If so, > > please contact the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board at > > , or the individual members, and they > > will work to resolve the issue to the best of their ability. For more > > information on who is on the Technical Advisory Board and what their > > role is, please see: > > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs/advisory-councils/tab > > > > As a reviewer of code, please strive to keep things civil and focused on > > the technical issues involved. We are all humans, and frustrations can > > be high on both sides of the process. Try to keep in mind the immortal > > words of Bill and Ted, "Be excellent to each other." > > > > > > " > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:23 AM, Ruben Safir wrote: > >> https://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/158-jim-zemlin/815318-on-the-linux-kernels-code-of-conflict > >> > >> I don't buy it. the last thing we need is thought police on the Linux > >> Kernel list... > >> > >> Last week, 60 kernel developers signed off on a small patch > >> called > >> the Code of Conflict that provides guidelines for discourse in the > >> kernel community and outlines a path for mediation if someone feels > >> abused or threatened. The code was written by kernel maintainer Greg > >> K-H, supported by many of the most prolific maintainers and developers > >> of the kernel community and accepted into the kernel by Linus Torvalds > >> himself. > >> > >> The Linux Foundation is happy to see these guidelines and is supportive > >> of the mediation process. We will work directly with the Linux > >> Foundation Technical Advisory Board to provide whatever support they > >> need in implementing this process. We believe the guidelines are > >> grounded in the unique culture and process that makes Linux so > >> successful. Conflict over code will and should happen. But the Code is > >> very clear that personal insults or abuse are not welcome. > >> > >> It???s no secret that the software industry would like to see more > >> diversity. The Linux Foundation believes in that. While this code does > >> not address that directly, we feel it???s an important step to make clear > >> that civil discourse is an important part of an open source community > >> and to make it very plain that all are welcome. Over the last few years, > >> The Linux Foundation has undertaken a variety of programs to address the > >> diversity issue. From funding kernel internships to being one of the > >> first organizations to publish a code of conduct for our events, we take > >> the need for diversity seriously and plan on continuing and expanding > >> these programs as well as supporting the community in their efforts. > >> > >> There is a long way to go, but the kernel community is always evolving > >> and we feel this patch is an important step. > >> > >> >