|FROM ||From: "Carlos O'Donell"
|SUBJECT ||Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation
|From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Nov 3 22:23:03 2019
Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (www2.mrbrklyn.com [126.96.36.199])
by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773C5163F54;
Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 7F97A161134; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:01 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Ruben Safir
Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:01 -0500
Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [188.8.131.52])
by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D5A161132
for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:03:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost ([::1]:56250 helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
for ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:03:43 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44020)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
(envelope-from ) id 1iRLYu-0006OT-4m
for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:21 -0500
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
(envelope-from ) id 1iRLYs-0006WA-H4
for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:19 -0500
Received: from mail-yw1-xc32.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c32]:44787)
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16)
(Exim 4.71) (envelope-from )
for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:18 -0500
Received: by mail-yw1-xc32.google.com with SMTP id a83so4696550ywe.11
for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 11:29:16 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e605:: with SMTP id p5mr16120916ywe.469.1572809355239;
Sun, 03 Nov 2019 11:29:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Carlos O'Donell"
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 14:29:04 -0500
To: Brandon Invergo
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 15:59:59 -0500
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation
List-Id: NYLXS Tech Talk and Politics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:41 PM Brandon Invergo wrote:
> For the past month or so, every message to the list has been subject to
> moderation, so-called "emergency moderation". It has become clear that
> the moderation was being used in a biased manner. We have decided to
> remove Mark and Carlos as moderators/admins and to turn off the
> emergency moderation. We will not place any restriction on the topic of
> discussion beyond what is outlined in the pre-existing list guidelines.
> This is *not* an invitation for open flames. Please continue to abide
> by the Kind Communication Guidelines. We will closely monitor the
> discussion and we will take appropriate actions as necessary.
Thanks to all of those that provided input into the list moderation
and censorship discussions.
My moderation is certainly biased towards posters that write well, and
argue without attacking the original poster, and create an environment
for effective communication. Lots of people on this list were able to
do that and their posts were approved. These guidelines are
long-enshrined in the list description. Enforcement is up to the
volunteers who run the list.
In all transparency I volunteered to moderate the list, because nobody
else was actively moderating, and Mark and I were worried about toxic
discussions derailing the conversations. Mark and I were given
moderator and admin access because we were trusted to do that. We are
long-time GNU Maintainers, and our goal was specific. You don't get
list moderator or admin access without that trust. I don't see that we
have abused that trust.
We did alter the list description to include an updated description of
the kind of moderation that was going to happen, however it was for
all intents and purposes an extension of the existing rules that say
anything can be discussed.
I don't clearly understand why Brandon or Mike removed us from
volunteer moderation. If they want us to help out with the list again,
I'm happy to help. We engaged with them to discuss how we should
handle the moderation issue, and I thought we had achieved a consensus
on that. We were going to post about shortly, and effectively do what
Brandon is doing right now. However, I'm disappointed that there has
been a sudden decision to remove us as volunteers. I think this comes
down to clearer roles and responsibilities in the GNU Project, which
is something we are all already talking about.
All-in-all it doesn't change the end goals we are working towards.
I encourage everyone to follow the GNU Kind communication guidelines
when posting. I encourage all of you to call out unkind behaviour. I
encourage all of you discuss about GNU Project governance while
avoiding specific discussions about people and their capabilities.
Hangout mailing list