MESSAGE
DATE | 2019-11-03 |
FROM | From: "Carlos O'Donell"
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SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation
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From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Nov 3 22:23:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (www2.mrbrklyn.com [96.57.23.82]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773C5163F54; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Received: by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7F97A161134; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:01 -0500 (EST) Resent-From: Ruben Safir Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:01 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <20191104032301.GD591-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> Resent-To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com X-Original-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D5A161132 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:03:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56250 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iRN2F-00055T-Sr for ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:03:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44020) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iRLYu-0006OT-4m for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:21 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iRLYs-0006WA-H4 for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:19 -0500 Received: from mail-yw1-xc32.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c32]:44787) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iRLYs-0006VA-2A for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:29:18 -0500 Received: by mail-yw1-xc32.google.com with SMTP id a83so4696550ywe.11 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 11:29:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemhalted.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7u8Wq1FP5xBEBll/PCXEL6quVfkAy5BSm2l1sMEXyIs=; b=ctJPq5jNLN0unzEl+qP+YdznuRDD4yqT83T9DM2Cz+m1+Xdgl/2JtDeieZ6VS30DJr Ffr/hT1kmlgyyDd66Q2shVRwnJg5/dvrJB1tQyCkzbR3lTXmbW5AW2B0G1W4xa98s435 9QWSKtezqlG0HYj6aW7SFpRkXljqiEqeipOLA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7u8Wq1FP5xBEBll/PCXEL6quVfkAy5BSm2l1sMEXyIs=; b=AVso2eUuPoJacYNVRsnI/Vn8BrmLSzbXtn8ymbPSSW6/uNtkUyCy+p8b9MWoF3cVkC DsnavILqMoUM1c7SBo1bYkjL3xx5UCmXuvhdxWhDM1lVhJ3KXp2y6gI2l9DCO5K6OAVG XcIejB0ZWSeqyqzA+iqD9eAq2cUpsLFx4YbDpA4X0FsgESsFe+ck8cfNYnE3LWkyD+O9 tYVJwhLiZJ/sXVhvLa1j4tSVMwFvqKrMa3nuPEbOHDWR1xnIp58O3sjZA65y5BPGzk6d FtRlybhnyj/mRhxV9OmPBDvhBuDj3adFap518onEHsJ8o2j/cdbnT5rog+7J8iDIFKsw Y6Xg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU+REj8GlqOyUp0FTTyj9ccZMkmdNLOwWTArRFjWNgdpXMzqF9J d/psVRYWPZw/6wdEVvnthXVSccX7Mk0ta0S+UhwnEw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxP/2dvxlmBQ1INn7NrqWMt2CcJn3lhWaKPyHQKI4r5vJM4fxNcY/f1XZoDYgLB3HaTSfviDgxu0FuIt6aZxtk= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e605:: with SMTP id p5mr16120916ywe.469.1572809355239; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 11:29:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87o8xsan5b.fsf-at-gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <87o8xsan5b.fsf-at-gnu.org> From: "Carlos O'Donell" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 14:29:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: Brandon Invergo X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c32 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 15:59:59 -0500 X-BeenThere: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list Cc: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation X-BeenThere: hangout-at-nylxs.com List-Id: NYLXS Tech Talk and Politics List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sender: "Hangout"
On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:41 PM Brandon Invergo wrote: > For the past month or so, every message to the list has been subject to > moderation, so-called "emergency moderation". It has become clear that > the moderation was being used in a biased manner. We have decided to > remove Mark and Carlos as moderators/admins and to turn off the > emergency moderation. We will not place any restriction on the topic of > discussion beyond what is outlined in the pre-existing list guidelines. > > This is *not* an invitation for open flames. Please continue to abide > by the Kind Communication Guidelines. We will closely monitor the > discussion and we will take appropriate actions as necessary.
Thanks to all of those that provided input into the list moderation and censorship discussions.
My moderation is certainly biased towards posters that write well, and argue without attacking the original poster, and create an environment for effective communication. Lots of people on this list were able to do that and their posts were approved. These guidelines are long-enshrined in the list description. Enforcement is up to the volunteers who run the list.
In all transparency I volunteered to moderate the list, because nobody else was actively moderating, and Mark and I were worried about toxic discussions derailing the conversations. Mark and I were given moderator and admin access because we were trusted to do that. We are long-time GNU Maintainers, and our goal was specific. You don't get list moderator or admin access without that trust. I don't see that we have abused that trust.
We did alter the list description to include an updated description of the kind of moderation that was going to happen, however it was for all intents and purposes an extension of the existing rules that say anything can be discussed.
I don't clearly understand why Brandon or Mike removed us from volunteer moderation. If they want us to help out with the list again, I'm happy to help. We engaged with them to discuss how we should handle the moderation issue, and I thought we had achieved a consensus on that. We were going to post about shortly, and effectively do what Brandon is doing right now. However, I'm disappointed that there has been a sudden decision to remove us as volunteers. I think this comes down to clearer roles and responsibilities in the GNU Project, which is something we are all already talking about.
All-in-all it doesn't change the end goals we are working towards.
I encourage everyone to follow the GNU Kind communication guidelines when posting. I encourage all of you to call out unkind behaviour. I encourage all of you discuss about GNU Project governance while avoiding specific discussions about people and their capabilities.
Cheers, Carlos. _______________________________________________ Hangout mailing list Hangout-at-nylxs.com http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
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