MESSAGE
DATE | 2019-11-03 |
FROM | Mark Wielaard
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SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation
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From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Nov 3 22:23:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from www2.mrbrklyn.com (www2.mrbrklyn.com [96.57.23.82]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1561A16115C; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: hangout-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com Received: by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5F023161134; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:07 -0500 (EST) Resent-From: Ruben Safir Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:23:07 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <20191104032307.GE591-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> Resent-To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com X-Original-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3753C161132 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 16:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56348 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iRN9q-0004ST-DD for ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:11:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53726) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iRN9m-0004Nl-Bd for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:11:31 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iRN9k-0002B2-LS for gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:11:30 -0500 Received: from wildebeest.demon.nl ([212.238.236.112]:42538 helo=gnu.wildebeest.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iRN9h-00023u-Pr; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:11:25 -0500 Received: from tarox.wildebeest.org (tarox.wildebeest.org [172.31.17.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gnu.wildebeest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC5FF3000275; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by tarox.wildebeest.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 531AD497032B; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <152fd3963ce0cbdb4b8aecbb393706689cb6d68a.camel-at-klomp.org> From: Mark Wielaard To: Carlos O'Donell , Brandon Invergo Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 22:11:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <87o8xsan5b.fsf-at-gnu.org> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 (3.28.5-5.el7) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.238.236.112 X-BeenThere: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list Cc: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] list moderation X-BeenThere: hangout-at-nylxs.com List-Id: NYLXS Tech Talk and Politics List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sender: "Hangout"
Hi,
On Sun, 2019-11-03 at 14:29 -0500, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > Thanks to all of those that provided input into the list moderation > and censorship discussions. > > My moderation is certainly biased towards posters that write well, and > argue without attacking the original poster, and create an environment > for effective communication. Lots of people on this list were able to > do that and their posts were approved. These guidelines are > long-enshrined in the list description. Enforcement is up to the > volunteers who run the list. > > In all transparency I volunteered to moderate the list, because nobody > else was actively moderating, and Mark and I were worried about toxic > discussions derailing the conversations. Mark and I were given > moderator and admin access because we were trusted to do that. We are > long-time GNU Maintainers, and our goal was specific. You don't get > list moderator or admin access without that trust. I don't see that we > have abused that trust. > > We did alter the list description to include an updated description of > the kind of moderation that was going to happen, however it was for > all intents and purposes an extension of the existing rules that say > anything can be discussed.
And even that only happened after we started discussions with Mike and Brandon on how to do moderation with the four of us. I was happy we were going to do this together and so I posted about it to the list to start the discussion about it and introduced Mike and Brandon to the team: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-misc-discuss/2019-11/msg00007.html And I believe we had consensus on how to word some of that better after some on-list and off-list discussions. And were just about to do so.
> I don't clearly understand why Brandon or Mike removed us from > volunteer moderation. If they want us to help out with the list again, > I'm happy to help. We engaged with them to discuss how we should > handle the moderation issue, and I thought we had achieved a consensus > on that. We were going to post about shortly, and effectively do what > Brandon is doing right now.
I am happy we achieved consensus on how to handle moderation on this list and I do hope it works out better and makes the list a more productive place for discussions, but I am completely demotivated now to help out with that.
> However, I'm disappointed that there has > been a sudden decision to remove us as volunteers. I think this comes > down to clearer roles and responsibilities in the GNU Project, which > is something we are all already talking about.
It does add a nice meta-governance discussion theme to the list :)
> All-in-all it doesn't change the end goals we are working towards. > > I encourage everyone to follow the GNU Kind communication guidelines > when posting. I encourage all of you to call out unkind behaviour. I > encourage all of you discuss about GNU Project governance while > avoiding specific discussions about people and their capabilities.
I do certainly agree with that.
Cheers,
Mark _______________________________________________ Hangout mailing list Hangout-at-nylxs.com http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
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