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|SUBJECT ||Subject: [hangout] [email@example.com: 48 hours of efforts plus a response to Mr Wynkoop]
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:29:10 -0500
From: NYLUG NYLUG
Subject: [hangout] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: 48 hours of efforts plus a response to Mr Wynkoop]
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Reply-To: NYLUG NYLUG
List: New Yorkers Linux Scene
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Actuially - You did need to look because this conversation has taken place
before in your absense, and your threw a troll across the bow of Peter.
The vigorousness of this debate is no less than it was previously,
long before NY Fair use, NYLXS, and the FSI was a twinkle in my
You do owe Peter an apology. Whether your a mench enough or not to
make the apology is, of course, up to you.
<Qmail is one and just the license should be enough to make any true
Linux person want to stay away from it.>>
Qmail is a fact of life in the living internet, so winning the debate on
the obscure, and often confusingly constructed RFC's is not a test of
any proof of the validity of your mail setup. It's just a fact that your
setup causes about 30% of the mail sent to it to bounce, and when I tried to
put customers on your systems, 4 of them infact, they all had fundemental
problems with getting their mail to you, or to me when I was on that system.
BTW - that customers service you think you fixed has never been fixed. They
just use their Yahoo account for mail now.
I'm going to answer this in as non trolling a manner as I can. My name
is Ruevain, and it's always been Ruevain. My English name is Ruben, and
I commonly use both or either.
In fact, outide of the circle of friends and associates I have here, most
people call me Ruevain.
As for my integety, this is probibly one of the worse places where you can
challege my honesty. The people who run this list, and who are part of NYLUG
have known me for years. We clearly don't always get along, nor do we always
agree. And I've been even bounced from this mailing list at least once, and
told I was sitting on the bubble more times than that.
But the people on this list, most of whom I know face to face, over many many
years, know me very well. I think anyone who reads this message would take it
with a grain of salt. I can be rude, forceful, and even obnoxious, but I'm
caring of nearly every individual, scrupulous in my honesty and integrety, and
live by a creed of 'do no harm'. Many many people on this list have benifited
from my activities over the years, and this is really the first time anyone
ever accused my of being unscrupulous or the least bit dishonest.
If you take the time to get to know the people here, now that you seem to
be dedicated to becoming more involved in the community, you should know that
they are a hard working bunch and not easily impressed with being patronized
nor do they take well to being abused.
Many times I've tried to explain to you, when we were fairly close friends, and
before your land grab of NY Fair Use and NYLXS, that the free software community
is one of trust and collaberation. In order for any of these organizations to
work, a spirit of giving needs to prevade in peoples interactions, and many
lines in which you might not draw for strangers, needs to be drawn within this
Your accusations towards NY Fair Use and it's parent organization, NYLXS, is
greviously hurtful. But over time, I've come to expect such callousness
when I deal with you. Generally I have a thick skin, and can give it and
take it as well as anyone. Over the years, I've let a lot of hurtful things
you've said to me, and my friends, to just pass, because I found you very
smart, and after much pleading, very useful. Unfortunately, when I put myself
in a position where you could actually harm me, you bit me, and bit me hard.
I really don't have the time or the energy to deal the entire package
which comes with 'Brett Wynkoop'.
I'm not going to go over on this list the entire history of your activities
and involvements with me and organizations which I run. And i can respect
that you may not like the way I run my organizations, or my personal life.
Over the long hall, you should know that the way you decided to go about things
and the patronizing manner in which you've dealt with both me and our board,
and now this list, has made me conclude that I can not work with you. I've
found you oppurtunistic, selfish, and uncooperative. My opinion is that this
is the antethisis of what the Free Software community needs in order to
survive, and to grow. I will only tell you what I've said many times
over and over to you, something which seems to escape your grasp.
A spirit of cooperation and giving is needed to work with people in
Free Software. Everyone needs to be treated with an underlining respect,
and you should never look to be cutting off the legs of your fellow
community member. Although you might be in the mist of a fierce (and
illegal on this mailing list) flame war, in the end, in the most siginficant
ways, you need to work to help others. I've personally worked hard with
people I have a deep dislike for, and tried to always put out a glad hand
and to help people I have had long fueds with. This is important. It
was the foundation of my speach which I gave in Bourdeax France last July
when I represented NY Fair Use at the LMS.
It is one of the reasons why I always refered to you as a co-founder of NY Fair
Use desipte the fact that the full burden of the organizations efforts were
on my shoulders, and continues to be on my shoulders to this day. It was
my way of defering on you te kind of respect I know you always crave,
and to encourage you to participate with NY Fair Use. My hand has been
bitten, and I consider myself warned.
<trip to DC. I paid for my own gas, food, fuel and tolls and another
member of New Yorkers For Fair Use put the van that you got for the
bargin price of a bit under $500 for the trip on his credit card
with the express understanding that you would pay the rental place cash
on return of the van. You did not and that individual got stuck with the
Hmmm - OK
We weren't going to pay for you to take your own car to DC when everyone
was expected to take the Van together to the Capital. However, I take
acception to the second assertion that we left anyone holding any bills.
I looked over the books and saw the entries for payments on that trip to
no less than 4 people. However, if we overlooked reimburssing anyone of
their expessnesses of that trip, NYLXS will gladly pay for the their expense
even today, whenever it is convientent for them, even if they've lost
the reciepts, just as we paid for the 4 other trips to Washington, and all
the papers and printing that we had done for NY Fair Use.
In fact, I just got back from another trip, and we had a good chance
show our displeasure with Tony Stanco's choices in advocating Free Software
to the government through Microsoft.
We rented greatr customes as our Founding Fathers, and we got a little
press, although not as much as I would have liked to yet. I think the
press expected somewhat of a blood letting on our part, which we didn't
do. We were very professional, and we got a ton of attention because
of the costumes. I had a chance to talk to several people I haven't seen in
a while, including Philip Argain, of the European Union who I met in France,
Sara Brown of Public Knowledge, David Axmart of MYSQL, some of the leading
developers of HP, Grant Gross, Tony Stanco, and many others.
I was very impressed with how well folks like Adam Kosmin, Tim Wilcox, Ceasar
Vargus, Ray Conelly and Sunny Dubbey handled themselves in a high powered
environment, in a potentially hostile situation, and their effectiveness at
face to face advocacy. It was a good tight ship, and even when the guards
were threatening to toss us out, the group performed cooly and persistantly.
Many of our guys chewed the fat over our isssues with the egov-os management
for a 1/2 hour or more. We made real inroads about the issues facing us
as free software develoepers, and we also gave out about a dozen NYLXS
folders along with some 150 pamphlets, as written by David Williams.
And then we got an extra bonus, as we went to see Congresman Weiners office
as well, in the afternoon. We covered a lot of the recent legistlation,
including the latest FCC fiasco over broad band and the baby bells, the
death of the Berman Bill, and we talked about our concern with recent statements
about DRM and P2P which have come from Tony Wiener. Of course we were all
dressed in our Colonial uniforms which shocked not only the Congressmans
staff, but also much of Captial Hill. We became the object of a few dozen
pictures by the public in Washington, and the uniformed presense so common
now in Washington exchanged military salutes whereever we went.
The younger guys got a taste of what it is like to walk the halls of Congress,
and we got some important inside information on the machorations of DRM on the
hill which I'm not really at libverty to divuldge to the public staff memebers.
I think they are working hard at getting us to be official witnesses in future
committee meetings. We'll have to just see how things work out.
Mind you, we left Brooklyn at 4AM. And NYLXS had a huge installfeast the
night and morning before. It was the LONGEST INSTALLFEAST on record, I'm
faily certain. It started at 10AM, and it finished with people still working
here until we kicked people out at 4AM because we had to leave. That's an 18
hour installfeast marathon. I got about 40 minutes of shut eye. An Marco
came at 7:30 to help with our Radio Show which should be in the archive.
The radio show included a wonderful discussion with students of the Free
Software Institute and their expereinces in our classes. It was simply great!
You can listen to it yourself.
So, I guess, overall, I'm trying to say, that I think my efforts and reputation
stands on it's own two feet these days. And I don't think that your going to
persuade too many people about my evilness here on NYLUG. I've been in the fox
hole with nearly everyone here, at one time or another. I deal with everyone
with an open hand and a big heart.
- Sole Founder and President of NY Fair Use, NYLXS,
the FSI, FSCC, NYC FS School Project, and more...
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
Keeping Digital Devices Free since May 2001
----- End forwarded message -----
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc